Woman jailed for illegal abortion at 34 weeks. Thoughts?

A 44 year old woman with 3 existing children lied to illegally order online abortion pills designed for use in the first 10 weeks of pregnancy. She took these pills at home when she was possibly 34 weeks pregnant (the legal cut off in UK is 24 weeks and after 10 weeks abortions usually take place in clinics).

After taking the pills she made an emergency call for an ambulance who arrived pronounced her daughter dead.

The suspected reason for the abortion is that the father of the baby was a man who wasnt the woman's partner (who she had temporarily split from and had the abortion after moving back in with the partner and after attempting to hide the pregnancy)

She has been jailed for 14 months and women's groups say that as a woman she should not be jailed for this crime.

Thoughts?

Ps, I'm offering no opinion in this post and am trying instead to post facts for others to give their thoughts.

 

Should not be illegal. Given her age, lockdown etc so no dating scan or usual clinics I'm surprised there even was a prosecution.

 

23 years ago my son was born 11 weeks early, at 29 weeks, he was 3lbs, spent 6 weeks in special care and came home at what would have been 35 weeks.
23 years ago, a baby at 29 weeks was a survivable human life with no lasting health issues. I'm sure nowadays even earlier prematures survive.
You can get into religious/ ethical arguments of what constitutes a life, but the legal limit of 24 weeks is there for a reason.
34 weeks to me is murder, this wasn't a rape or any other kind of mitigating circumstance, it was a baby of inconvenience. She got off lightly.

 

as you all know my grandson was born 9 yers ago at 11 weeks prem and weighing 1lb 7 oz the little two hats plagues my eyes out every day after school. . . the force is strong with my young paduwan

 

The prosecution highlighted that lockdown didn't start until long after the woman passed the 24 week point and therefore was not a factor into why she didn't seek any help for an abortion before it became illegal

 

34 weeks the foetus is nearly fully developed. I'm on the side of the courts in this one. She put her partner before the welfare of the foetus soon to be baby imo. Wrong on so many counts. As she would have continued to go full term otherwise.
I am definitely not against abortion per sè (as it's a woman's choice) But this was a step too far for me.
I dont know what the numbers for adoption are for newborn babies in the USA. but the take up in the uk is I believe 100% with advanced preparations.

 

I think this pretty much sums up my position.

 

Always a grey line with this sort of issue regarding age of babies/foetuses. I'm no medical expert and not an ethics guru but from what I've read re: termination at this very late stage she does need reprimanding/ sanctioning in some form. She did break the law as well here remember. Particular circumstances dont paint her in a good light either. Prison? I'm not so sure about that either with her already having kids who need their mum. So, bottom line she is guilty of a clear crime here and should be punished in some form. Not quite sure of the type of sanction she should get

 

My eldest was born at 36 weeks, 4lbs 6oz. Home within 5 days. I'm pro-choice but there's a balance needed.

 

More than some rapists.

we really are a hateful misogynistic country at times.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1...e-short-data-police-force-Survivors-Trust/amp

 

Seems a harsh sentence to me given the mitigating factors of lockdown etc and for the fact that she pleaded guilty (to a 19th century law ffs).

 

I usually agree with you but I don't think you're comparing like for like here. Rapists should get hammered of course and society is riddled with nastiness such as misogyny but taking this individual case as that - an individual case - then the woman should get some sort of sanction. If rapists do less time then that's obviously an issue that needs addressing but I don't think rape needs considering in this case.

 

There are childless families who would be desperate to adopt a new born child, so sad. I’m wondering what failures there were in the social care system whereby there was the opportunity to pick up on this and help the women do the right thing?
I can’t understand anyone saying that a 34 week old babies rights don’t exist though. It’s a crazy world where people will argue that a dog which kills someone’s shouldn’t be put down but would cheer on abortions up until full term - crazy morals.

 

As harsh as it may sound, if she was of sound mind and knew what she was doing and no serious mitigating factors then 14 months seems quite lenient on face value. If the child had been born and she had killed it most would be saying 14 months is not enough.

 

Sums up my view completely. I am not anti abortion at all and respect a woman's right to choose. And I appreciate that there is a complicated moral and ethical debate there about when does an embryo become a foetus, become a human. The subject has been debated in Parliament at length and a judgement call of 24 weeks is the law. I think that is perhaps a few weeks too high personally given modern standards of post natal care and the resultant ability of babies to survive when very premature.

But that baby was perfectly capable of surviving at 34 weeks, had it been born, so the ethical debate was over many weeks prior in this case. That was a fully formed human being and the only reason the charge was not murder is that the poor mite just happened to have not yet been born. She did indeed get off lightly.

 

Giving birth carries risk to baby and mother. It also impacts on a woman's health, physically and mentally. Very few abortions occur this late on.

 

I understand that. It’s a very emotive subject. To me it speaks of how we treat men and women differently but certainly don’t expect anyone to agree with me.

 

She’d planned it meticulously, had done Google searches on how to hide pregnancy bumps and then how to lose a baby after six months, then systematically and intentionally lied about her gestation period to obtain drugs which ended the life of her unborn child, leading to a stillborn birth at 34 weeks. She acted in a calculated and callous manner, ignoring any other options she had and yes she did have opportunity to terminate her pregnancy before the 24 week cutoff, lockdown didn’t affect access to these services for her.

That child was probably viable to survive a premature birth for a whole two months before that. What she did is absolutely sickening.

I’m massively pro choice. I’m not remotely anti abortion. Even just if it’s for convenience. Abortion is healthcare as the American prochoice brigade preach. I agree.

If you don’t want to be a parent, then you shouldn’t. That’s fine. But there’s a limit.

In our law it’s set at 24 weeks (for a baby with no health conditions). She knew she was pregnant well before that.

But she flagrantly broke the law, and all to terminate a pregnancy she didn’t want her fella to know about.

She then denied allegations against her until late into the proceedings. The judge said himself that had she pleaded guilty at an earlier stage her sentence could have been suspended. One of her boys has special needs. She couldn’t even take a plea offer to keep herself out of prison for his sake, persisting she wasn’t guilty (against legal advice).

She’ll spend a year and two months behind bars it seems.

As to whether or not the punishment fits the crime - where’s the deterrent to prevent another woman in the future acting in the same way if she’d not been imprisoned?

Rape sentences and the conviction rate for rape in the first place are absolutely abhorrent - but not really relevant. Two wrongs and all that.

 

That's because its illegal to abort this late. For good reason.