Good old Starmer

That's about where I am.

 

You will learn to love him Helen!

 

Politicians, more faces than a tarn hall clock. say black is white when required

 

I have a decent labour MP in my constituency in Alex Sobel. I'll be voting for him.

 

I will judge Starmer on what he does in office rather than what he says in the build up. Like you say at the minute he is very much playing politics to win an election.

 

I wasn’t just referring to Starmer but is that accurate? 10 times? He works in law anyway whilst been an MP, huge expenses claim & more importantly huge amounts coming from his backers. He’s not exactly living off around 85k a year on his MP’s salary.

Also the kind of wealth he’ll get in the future is mind blowing. Boris supposedly netted £5m in his first 6 months after leaving office from speeches & donations. Once he leaves office he’ll earn far more than he did in law & won’t have to do any proper work.

 

THEY'VE GOT TO GET IN FIRST

It's New Labour playbook, takes away an avenue attack from the Tory press and gives Tory voters some confidence of shifting their vote over.

Say it again - a 'true' left Government hasn't been elected for 50 years. What makes ppl genuinely think that'll change this time? Go where the voters are.

 

The DPP Salary is currently £225k. I would suspect Keir had the potential to have been earning more than that before his appointment, but I think his practice was more in human rights cases and the like, rather than commercial work. (Mansfield, Darfield may know better than me). His Leader of the Opposition salary is £144k, which includes his MP's salary. His 'backers' will be backers of Labour's campaign, rather than personal financial supporters. He would have lucrative opportunities post any stint as PM, but much less I suspect than the likes of Cameron, Johnson and (inexplicably) Truss.

 

We need to move away from the line some are taking on this thread of "Vote Tory then" towards long standing Labour supporters holding the leadership to account. It's absolutely okay and healthy to question the direction the party are going in.

Starmer and his approach just offers no hope. There's nothing to enthuse under-35s who have been continually shafted by the politics of the last 15 years and who largely got on board and excited about the possibility for change under Labour 2016-2019. These people (myself included) are desperate to be heard and have someone stand up for us and stop living standards declining.

It's a symptom of our broken system that Labour must chase Tory votes by being light blue to win an election. But you have to give the people relying on you to improve their lives something to vote for. It's not enough to simply vote against the Tories, with the only prospect being a well-administered, sleaze-free version of the status quo.

Unless they wise up, I wouldn't be surprised if millions of votes are lost to the Greens. Which, along with Tory votes that will go Lib Dem from middle Englanders who see any Labour vote as propping International Communism, might well cost them a majority.

I say all this as a current Labour member.

 

I have no idea how you can say that particularly about Streeting. One of the most impressive politicians in the HoC imho.

 

I think they do all they can to make them accountable but it's hard to get blood out of stones.
I don't see the ops problem with the 2 child cap on child benefits. And it's a policy that would benefit my family if changed but I don't think it should be.

 

But it really is that simple for most voters.

Saying that, Labour members such as yourself are perfectly entitled to question and influence the direction the party is taking. I believe the National Policy Forum is due to meet soon? So there's a start. But it seems to me that in the party membership as a whole, Starmer's support is rock solid and the cautious line he is taking is totally embraced by members of his Shadow Cabinet.

 

I think this is one of the best posts I've read in here for a long time.

I agree with everything you've said. I'm a Labour member too, and I would love us to set out a more compelling, ambitious vision for the country but you point to the systemic challenges - I can't help but feel like he's playing the game that's presented to him rather than the one he wants.

It's not great, but it's necessary IMHO. But I get why some feel they aren't represented.

 

He really isn’t

 

Not so sure, but surely some things would improve under a Labour government.Fail to see how anyone think it could be worse!

 

Yes. The bar really has been set very low.

 

Bit of an oxymoron there mate

 

Cheers Dyson. I hope that Labour do win the next GE and that the party move back towards the kind of ambition Starmer showed in his leadership contest.

I get that wholesale changes might not be realistic at the moment given the economic mess we're in. But I'd love to at least see the direction of 'here's what we believe in and want to do, when we can'. A bit of vision without need to make breakable promises.

 

How so?

 

His support within the party isn't as watertight as you describe in my experience. But I think there's an acceptance that things are going to be how they are going into the next GE, and that infighting gets us nowhere.