Israel

The news coverage has been embarrassing trying to push a narrative on people who are so gullible. Palestine doesn't even have a army and any resistance to how its been treated for 70 years is terrorism.

 

slaughtering 300 people at a music concert and kidnapping oaps is all part of palestine resistance i guess....

 

I've held back from saying this for a while, but you're a fucking cretin. There's a massive difference between acts of terrorism carried out by a minority faction within a state and a state exercising collective punishment over 2.3m people, half of whom are kids.

And before you start throwing accusations I in no way support Hamas. They are an organisation of hate and terrorism. But they are a minority within Palestine, compared to Israel which is a state with the backing of the west. And no, it's not anti-semitic or racist to criticise the actions of the state of Israel: people are far too sensitive about this. It is a right wing, xenophobic state and if you want proof (other than the ongoing war crime of collective punishment in Gaza) look no further than the fact that Israel "accepted" Ethiopian Jews and then gave them contraceptive injections without their consent or knowledge.

If the roles were reversed and Palestine were viewed as being as geopolitically important to the west as people consider Israel to be, we would have gone to war on their behalf decades ago.

 

Actually 2014, not 2004 as stated, but still. Worth bearing in mind over the next few days.

 

As soon as I heard the bombing of the hospital I thought Israeli state would deny it was them and blame Hamas or some other faction. I mean they could be right, but having seen the size of the explosion and the damage and fire that followed, it seems to me at least somewhat unlikely, especially given none of the missiles hitting Israel has caused anywhere near that amount of damage to houses and buildings.

 

Starmer insinuating Israel has the right to cut off water etc., and lay siege to Gaza strip. Which is of course a war crime.

https://youtube.com/shorts/5HQYfsUAf3s?si=0JgnQsGhIwUEgivF

 

The entire thing is heartbreaking. Some of the images are beyond comprehension - I'm no expert in the origins or complexities of it, but it's just so, so sad.

 

"Within international law."

 

You are a massive bell*nd if you think Hamas represent the Palestinian people.

I think you just say things to either be edgy or get a bite. Get back to the Oldham forum.

 

suppose every normal israeli person is to blame for actions by IDF then

 

did I ever say I blame civilians in palestine

who runs palestine- hamas

who runs russia- putin

just how you refer to actions of a state

 

Well, several weapons experts are suggesting that from the images of the hospital explosion, it doesn't look/sound like ordinance from an airstrike. I don't know myself; I'd be surprised if a locally made rocket could be that powerful, but I'm not an expert on aerial munitions.

This the fundamental issue of international politics. Technically, there is no such thing as international law. I don't mean normatively, but empirically there isn't. How states can overcome international anarchy (no higher power able to arbitrate disputes and impose law on states), is the fundamental issue that international relations scholars continue to try and understand.

 

They’re not the actions of the Palestinian state though are they?Putin is the officially recognised leader of the Russian govt, Hamas are a self- imposed terror group that claim to be representative of all of the Palestinians

 

You missed the bit before where he said

"Israel does have that right."

As a lawyer you'd have thought he'd know the difference.

Edit: several people within the party have now resigned following his comments, he should perhaps clarify what he means, but I suspect as usual he's fence sitting because if he criticises Israel then he's going to get a hard time.

 

Nobody is saying that.

 

Ah, so you want to use half the quote to try and make your point?

 

Technically, yes. There is no codified system. But there are accepted standards and norms which govern conduct (including in war/conflict) which are contained in the various treaties and declarations made between various groupings of nation states. 'International law' is being used here as shorthand for that understanding (as far as I understand it!). I understand Starmer to mean that Israel's right to defend itself is subject to compliance with those standards and norms.

 

Apparently there is major unrest within the Labour party at the moment. Several have quit, but lots more are threatening to - particularly those who are Muslim - and some council leaders were begging for them to row back on the comments (not just Starmer, but Lammy and others too). I imagine after last night this pressure is increasing.

 

Good post' and just take note of the number of politicians and commentators that start to back pedal on their support for israel " defending itself" when the true horror of this atrocity surfaces. I suppose this mornings missile attack on a hospital killing 500 can be explained away as Israel lawfully defending itself aswell' its an opportunity for them to wipe out Palestine once and for all' its genocide.

 

I genuinely don't get how there can be anything to fall out about in this whole situation. Assuming you're moderately sensible.
Israel has been pushing and pushing, oppressing and oppressing the Palestinians for decades and bear equal responsibility for where we are now. The Arabic side have been, in various levels of clarity, calling for the eradication of Israel and have unleashed an abominable act of terrorism.
Neither side is in the right and if we had a properly functioning UN and international community they'd have had their heads knocked together long since. Unfortunately we don't so the chaos and carnage and oppression rolls on.
To position yourself as taking one side over the other is, frankly, idiotic.