Starmer

Absolutely 100%. Hamas are vile terrorists but there’s no excuse for anyone committing war crimes in retaliation.

 

This is more of an example of Starmer's dreadful party management and lack of judgement. As you suggest, the vote was practically meaningless and yet in order to assert his own personal authority on MPs he made this (meaningless) vote a 3 line whip forcing MPs to decide whether to resign/be sacked or be seen as supporting genocide.

Shaking my head at this 'man of principle'.

 

Me too. It's an unnecessary own goal. Corbynesque.

 

No answer to it really if someone killed my family I would be a terrorist or in the Army.

 

The more pressure is applied on Israel from whatever direction the better. Britain can have a say, can refuse to supply weapons to Israel can try and influence the USA. If Israel just carries on regardless then there's not a lot more we can do. Not to try anything is a failure though. If we just say 'theres no point trying anything' that says something poor about us as human beings.

 

Exactly. We’re their 2nd biggest ally behind the US. To pretend we have no influence over them is ridiculous.

 

What action should we be taking?

 

As I just suggested mate.

 

Looks like the rebellion was contained and the majority of the PLP followed the leadership line.

 

28% is fairly high level rebellion. Losing a key ally like Phillips is just poor. I’d assume Starmer was hoping it would be only the usual suspects.

 

One plus point for Starmer. At least he can't be accused of being an anti-Semite?

 

I guess it must take a hell of a lot of squinting to look at the Labour amendment and somehow translate it as "Labour supports genocide" but if it makes a good soundbite for you then why let facts get in the way.

Still, it's great to see that all the drama brought out a conclusive result in terms of improving the situation over there. Those two failed amendments will really make a difference to people's lives.

 

Heartbreaking to witness the catastrophe that has unfolded in Israel/Gaza following the heinous attacks on Israeli civilians by Hamas. Netanyahu and his intelligence service have much to answer for. The loss of life in Gaza that has followed is totally unacceptable.
The demand to release hostages held by Hamas & other groups should also be as loud as the demand for a ceasefire. Both need to happen immediately there has been enough suffering endured by thousands of innocents.

 

Especially when Jess is a member of Labour Friends of Israel. Yesterday's vote exposed a number of lefties he can gradually wheedle out of the Labour Party in his aim of turning it into a Tory-lite organisation.

 

I think on an issue like this Starmer was totally wrong to impose a 3 line whip. Allowing MPs to follow their conscience and the wishes of their constituents would have been sensible and understood by the electorate. What has happened with sackings and resignations just makes him look stupid and uncaring. Thankfully the Tories are imploding so quickly that this will be forgotten by most people. If the polls were Close, something like this could have been terminal.

 

I agree. Labour is not in government and as long as it continues to look fit to take over, there was no need to make MPs choose between their own ambitions and their own electorability.

They ought to have been able to vote according to the views of their constituents. And thus make sure that they saved their own parliamentary skins.

Not that it matters to the rest of the world.

 

We could - as part of the UN Security council - bring forward resolutions to push for peace in the region. We could threaten Israel with sanctions on the supply of weapons while they are committing war crimes. We could exert our diplomatic powers to ask them to stop. We could try to set up peace talks.

Lots of things we could do. None of them we will do.

 

There was a lot of talk of Corbyn naively walking into bear traps - the 2019 election being a big one - but Starmer sprinted straight into this one and could easily have avoided it. This war isn't the biggest issue in the country at the moment (although it is for some people - many Labour councillors and members) and he could easily have supported the SNP or left it as a matter of conscience.

If this was the only issue on the table, I wouldn't vote Labour - and my MP has gone down a lot in my opinion because of their actions over the last few weeks.

 

It's all already been done. All of it. We ought not to be supplying bombs Gaza though - I hope we aren't. If we are then that's a march to think about going on.

I admire and indeed sometimes share your enthusiasm. But these opposing forces are irreconcilable.

They won't split land peacefully. Ever.

 

Where is Sunak, Braverman, hang on she's gone , now Dave Pig Guy on this thread? Who is through the revolving / revolting door of the Government? The people who actually have some influence. Shadow Cabinet have none. not that I don't applaud people who have made a stance about the massacre in Palestine, who also flag up the Hamas atrocities & their agenda quite clearly. **** the Tory Party. They are allowing this to happen. Not a Starmer guy, either btw, but that ain't the point.