Experience

Just watched a clip from Ben Fosters podcast with special guest Andros Townsend and after a few minutes they start talking about the importance of experience in a football club.

They raise some fantastic points to be fair which I believe teams like ourselves who neglect that side of the game when looking at transfer targets, such as the attitude Monday morning after a defeat or when they haven't been in the team.



Also brings into thought the influence experience would be on the pitch, we struggle against the better teams in this division and well organised teams who will just let us pass it aimlessly across our back line, and how an older/more experienced player or two could be impactful in those moments.

Looking ahead to January and our transfer targets, should we be going for more experience even if it comes at the cost of ability like a Norwood or go for ability but with the absence of experience such as a Tedic?

Hopefully we can get one who's got both...such as Ronaldo or Messi.

 

Is the experience argument an illusion that is used as a stick to beat the club with.

Cole - 335 career appearances.
Kane - 192 career appearances
Styles - full international (18 caps) 211 career appearances
Williams - 159 career appearances.
Cadden - 265 career appearances.
Sam Cosgrove - 239 career appearances.

Not saying its the most experienced side in the division by any stretch but if the list above havent lost a few games between them and know how to react and motivate when we do then its a poor show.

Being 30+ years old doesnt mean you are a good influence in the dressing room.

 

Even the youngest footballer has been playing for years in age group games and has experienced the highs of winning and the lows of losing. That doesn't mean that heads won't sometimes drop or get overconfident, but even by 18 they should know how to react to any result.

 

Nail on head we have plenty of experience at this level.

 

Is that a group of senior pros that will keep standards high off the pitch, and keep the team going when things aren't going well on it? Our record when going behind since Ismael left suggests maybe not. Could also argue that Styles, Williams and Cadden have made the majority of those appearances in wide positions, and with Cosgrove hardly playing that leaves Cole and Kane offering experience in the spine of the team.

 

The record we have when going behind is shocking admittedly but how much of that is players attitudes when going a goal down and how much of it is down to experience? People keep saying we miss norwoods experience, how many games did we come back and win while him and mads were in the squad last season?

 

I don't think it's so much a question of having experienced players, more a case of having a good group of senior pros, which in turn helps with the players attitudes. Ismael inherited a squad that had Helik, Sollbauer, Mowatt, James, Frieser and Woodrow. Even Conor Chaplin was credited with having a strong character. It wasn't a team of kids, and they were bought into the coach's methods and it all showed. When James left, Carlton Morris came in. But we had senior players throughout the spine of the team. That has slowly eroded in the years since, which is why it was so disappointing to see us replace Andersen how we did (or didn't).

 

I do agree with what you are saying to a degree however its worth noting the players you have mentioned didnt have the appearances of some of the players on the list above...

Carlton Morris - 160ish
Mowatt - 116
Woodrow - 106
Helik - 151
Sollbauer - 298
Froezer - 193

Obviously some subsequent appearances were made for us prior to Val etc but still, we have followed the same mould for years, just because we sign someone whos 33 doesnt mean theyve play a load of games, likewise signing a 23 year old doesnt mean were signing someone without experience..

What level that experience is at and whether they are at the current level ability wise is a different story.. but knowing how to motivate fellow pros should be a given having experienced coaching throughout the youth levels etc.

What does annoy me is when people say you need someone to shout and rave to motivate players.. the last thing i would want if im struggling in a game would be someone screaming at me.. but that might work for others.. understanding each persons triggers and what effects each member of the team is invaluable.. that comes from knowing your teammates personally and spendong time to learn.. this is where i feel we struggle due to changing managers regularly and the high turnover of players.

 

Ismel did inherit those players but we started that season awfully with the same players didn't struber get 1 win in 7 games or some thing shocking? The two signings val made that really changed the season and had a big impact on where we ended up were carlton morris who had played mostly on loan at lower leagues and daryl dike a young lad with no experience.
Vals time he really over achieved with the players he had but we were so well drilled and organised and seemed to have a great team spirit it just worked.
Like said the failure to come from behind and pick up points is worrying but even with the likes of Norwood, Anderson and Liam kitching who were all big characters we failed to win when going behind.

I think a few times this season Collins has shown his inexperience but that's just my opinion.

 

It’s the lack of experience in the back 3 that’s most telling.

 

We also had Brittain, Chaplin and James that season who had over 100 appearances behind them at the start of the season. We didn't really have an area full of novices when Ismael took over. Andersen was the least experienced centre back with only one season behind him, then in January we introduced Dike, Palmer and Sibbick after we'd turned a corner and were winning games. As @onemickybutler says, the experience of the defence is a worry. Williams is the most experienced, but the vast majority of that is at wing back, McCart has struggled to establish himself anywhere and after losing our captain we brought in a novice from France, and a couple of non-league players.

Even more worrying, is that 4 of the players that you listed as our experienced players, are out of contract at the end of the season. And one more has wanted out for over 12 months. If we take the same approach to replacing them, as we took to this summer's transfer window, then next season will be grim. I still think the plans the club had for replacing Andersen were a contributing factor to Duff jumping ship.

 

We did start that season awfully. And signed Brittain and James in the period between coaches. Ismael was an excellent coach, but he was also blessed with the most experienced overall group of players that we've had for a long time. I don't think he would've done much better than Stendel with the cards dealt the previous year, without any new players in, for example.

I've barely seen any of this year to comment on Collins, but last year, while the issue of going behind was still there. We masked it by having, in my opinion, the best centre back, best midfielder and best head coach in the league. So the times we fell behind was a lot less than anyone else in the league. I don't see that list of players that @kiefer1912 listed above and think that's a good senior group of players. Not convinced two or three of them even want to be here. And the centre backs have been hung out to dry, like a smaller scale version of when we replaced Pinnock and Lindsay with novices.

The fact that Kitching was named captain speaks volumes.

 

Brittain had no experience of championship football and as good as james was he never lasted a full game.He was blessed with the most experienced group of player we had for a while but in comparison to Bournemouth and the other teams around us and even throughout the championship that season we had little "experience". Ismel just played football how he wanted had the players well drilled but knew if we got the ball down and tried to out play teams we would have got beat so we went with the keep the ball in there half football. I'd say experience is more important in the championship but even so Sunderland reached last season's play offs with a average age of 23.

 

You could change the Thread title to.. leaders.. and it would mean the same thing

 

Until we have the players with the heart that can come back from behind and win, we ain't going nowhere.
Again.. signing players from a spreadsheet.and not going and scouting them.. and actually seeing what metal they have not how many Keepyupies they can do..
Pi55 poor recruitment...

 

Not sure how much you can say that though even with big characters like mads, Bobby Thomas,kitch and Norwood we failed to come back and win.

 

MDG had played 55 times at the French 3rd tier and 31 times at 2nd tier level when he signed. That's their equivalent of 1-2 seasons in League 1 and a season in the Championship here.

 

The French 2nd tier is no where near championship standard.

 

Depends on who ranks it. These (https://www.teamform.com/en/league-ranking/europe) people put the Championship at 18th best league in Europe and Ligue 2 at 27th. League 1 is 42nd and National 1 is 46th. Not that much between them really. Yes, the English leagues are ranked a bit higher, but Wednesday and Rotherham would probably struggle in Ligue 2 and Laval or Angers hold their own in the Championship.

 

Exactly this.
But the issue isn’t who we bought this Summer, it’s the clubs inability to buy players in between and develop ready to step up. They will never be as good as the person just left but one a season and slightly behind not wholesale & long way.
It’s the only way our model can work.