Ever Get the feeling you’ve been cheated.

https://x.com/benefitstheband/status/1731230075230556226?s=46&t=j20zR706pmXrBtdI_7p-NQ

looking forward to people like you defending his admiration for Hitler. Well all he was saying that. He was a strong leader…

He’s also praising Thatcher for changing a moribund Britain. Labour had won 4 of the previous 5 elections.

 

What a patronizing insulting, derogative, insulting LIBELOUS pile of crap, fking Hitler my arse and funnily enough I thought Labour hadn't been in power since 2010

 

Labour were in power from 1964 to 1979 with a Tory government breaking that up between 1970 and 1974.
We all have views about Starmer and I've stated mine quite a few times on here. The bottom line for me (and I'm a 'natural' Labour bloke) is that he is an untrustworthy, deceptive, authoritarian person with no strong moral compass. The most galling thing is that he's Labour. I usually assume that this kind of duplicitous, shape-shifting sort of stance that he has normally comes from the Tories but here we are - a Labour leader who, among other things doesn't like to see support for trade unions, who says the two-cap child benefit should not be altered and who now says, effectively, that Thatcher was a breath of fresh air. A Labour leader. Think about it. If any other Labour people on here truly believe that he's just being clever doing this kind of thing then that's up to them. Voting for Labour looks like a deserate unfounded hope that somehow things will get better rather than a realisation that nothing will really change. In my opinion of course. Therefore, 'vote Labour to get the Tories out' doesn't strike me as a mantra with any aspirational weight behind it. I dont think I can support the party with this bloke leading it and I will have no qualms voting for someone else when I've reflected. I'm not letting the Tories back in, I'm trying to stop them regardless of what colour rosette they wear

 

absolutely no problem with folk having different views, same as with football, but he pushed it too far with the Hitler *****.

 

We should all try and be pleasant shunt we?
Treat people how you want to be treated.

 

You think a Labour government under Starmer will be as bad as the current Tory government? Then I can't begin to have a serious conversation with you. You think they're the same as lunatics like Truss, Kwarteng, Braverman, Rees Mogg and Patel? That's laughable. Yes, we need ideals and idealists. But we need pragmatism even more at the minute. There is NO other alternative to the Tories so you have to take your pick.
If you asked every Tory MP at the moment to make a Christmas wish list I'm willing to bet that at the top for them all would be to have Jeremy Corbyn back as Labour leader. The one thing Corbyn achieved as leader was, through inaction and tacit support, make Brexit a reality and I for one will never, ever forgive him for that.
The UK has a chance at the next election to smash the Tories so badly that they fracture into factions from which they never recover.
I can't help do that anymore because I can't vote but everybody who can, should.

 

I'll be voting Labour at the next election, but I can't say it'll be with any great enthusiasm. Anyone who's not a multi-millionaire who still votes Tory must have extremely serious mental problems.

 

All

But that's kind of the point. Where do you draw the line? Hitler is obviously an extreme example, but many people (especially on here) were directly affected by Thatcher's policies, so to hear Starmer praise her is pretty galling, even if it's a cheap attempt to pander to the Tory faithful.

 

I'm not sure what all the fuss is about. I think Sir Keir has simply stated the facts, not heaped praise on Thatcher.

Does anyone have the full article so that we can examine what exactly was said?

 

Look further up the thread where I believe JamDrop posted the comments in context.

He doesn't heap praise on her, but no Labour leader (or intelligent person for that matter) should ever make mention in a written, published article of what Thatcher 'sought' to do without referencing the effects. Which are still devastating large parts of the country.

Same as you would mention what GPs 'sought' to do by administering Thalidomide to pregnant women without acknowledging the reality of what it caused.

He could easily have swerved mentioning her or added a caveat. He knows what he's doing and courting Thatcherite votes whilst demeaning his own party in the language used is pathetic. And, you cannot deny, Tory.

 

I don't think Jam Drop's clip was the full article. Thatcher wasn't the main focus of the article - she was one of three prime ministers mentioned who effected "meaningful change". Whether you agree or disagree with what she did, it can't be denied that she effected meaningful change. I think you have to bear in mind the audience that Keir was addressing.

 

It's very telling when everyone reacts to the headline, rather than the actual content of the article.

It's almost as if some people have an agenda to try to attack Starmer at every opportunity they can muster!

Still, the Torygraph will be content that all these outraged people on the left are playing into their hands. It's reassuring to see that someone else bothered to check the content, at least.

 

personally I’d draw the line before ‘people like you and Hitler’
Personally I was also adversely affected by Thatchers (fair enough nothing like as bad as some) .
Regarding Starmer I’m in the anything but the Tories camp.

 

This will be the first General Election in my lifetime where I don't vote for them. They turned their back on the working class during the pandemic and I can't forgive that. It'll have to be Lib Dem (who will probably win in my constituency anyway so it won't be a waste).

 

I read the article not the headline and reacted to that

 

I take the opposite view. Knowing the hatred and vicious dishonesty that lurks within the right wing media I think that he is desperate not to give them a scrap to attack him/Labour with. I think he is doing a cracking job of that. Tice and his band of fools should also help by splitting the Tory vote in some areas.

 

The Lib Dems align far more closely with most of my values these days. But why would I vote for them when I live in a very marginal two-horse race between Labour and the Tories? Until we have an electoral system that's fit for purpose, my vote has to go to the party most likely to defeat the Tories, whoever that may be (unless it's UKIP)

 

Impressive over-reaction then. Regular Telegraph reader are you?

I say this as someone who detests everything Thatcher stood for. She's the only person I'm aware of who's death I actually welcomed the announcement of.

Regardless of that, I just don't feel inspired to jump on the bandwagon criticising this relatively innocuous comment, aimed at floating voters who might switch from voting Tory.

 

Apologies if you feel that this went too far. I felt that a Labour leader praising transformative Thatcherute change went too far.

There are lots of offensive world leaders who transformed society.

It’s why when you describe that transformation you evaluate it and critique it. Starmer knows that and chose not to contextualise.

He was throwing red meat to the Tories who will never vote for him whilst. Making the calculation that under FPTP centre left people have no one else to vote for. Certainly in Scotland he is pissing away the small gains made.

He may well be proved right however. Personally I think John Curtice will be right in saying it will be a hung parliament and idiocy like that will make the negotiations for that much harder for Labour to form a centre left coalition.

4 of the 5 Governments pre 1979 were Labour so not sure why 2010 is relevant in any way.

 

That's not what you said though. Your statement was that Labour had won 4 out of the 5 previous elections.

I'm aware that the Corbynistas like to view the 2017 defeat as a glorious victory, but even counting that as a win, it's still total b0llocks.