Is the quality of League 1 better or worse than last season?

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Watcher_Of_The_Skies, Jan 21, 2024.

  1. Wat

    Watcher_Of_The_Skies Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2011
    Messages:
    9,199
    Likes Received:
    5,056
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Leeds
    Style:
    Barnsley
    There have been a fair few comments saying that the only reason we are doing so well is because the quality of the league is poor this year compared to last year. So I did a little digging and ran a few numbers to compare:

    I compared the points total of the team in each league position (1 to 24) over the course of 25 games in 2022/23 and again in 2023/24. Note: That is to say the names of each time aren't important, just how many points they have in that position, compared to last season. One small difference is Bolton have only played 24 games this year.

    Results

    The top two teams, Portsmouth and Peterborough are slightly behind where Plymouth and Wednesday were at the same point last season (3 points in each position). Derby are a point worse off compared to the same position last year, but the teams in 4th to 7th have seen a gain in their points total compared to the same positions last year (on average 5 points each).

    For the rest of the league it's a bit of a mixed bag, with some teams slightly worse off, others slightly better off, but overall there's no massive difference to suggest that the league is significantly better or worse.

    The correlation between the points this year and last year is very high (0.96), strongly suggesting that the points are very similar and there's not a statistically noticeable difference between the two seasons. You might expect to see a lower number if there were larger discrepencies in the points - if some teams were significantly worse (and conversely better for others, as those points have to go somewhere!), but that's not really the case.

    upload_2024-1-21_12-3-51.png

    Teams in Green = Promoted from Division 2
    Teams in Red = Relegated from Championship
     
    Deafening Silence likes this.
  2. matoakwell

    matoakwell Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2014
    Messages:
    1,771
    Likes Received:
    2,347
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Whichever league we are in, every year it is "the weakest ever" according to some.
     
  3. S74 Red

    S74 Red Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2021
    Messages:
    2,024
    Likes Received:
    3,055
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hoyland
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    I’m not sure this is the best way to work this out as there’s only a finite amount of points to play for anyway.

    I honestly think you can only judge it on what you see with your own eyes. I’ve said all season that it’s a lot worse, but I’m coming round to the idea it might not be. In terms of entertainment it’s pretty dire, but on reflection that’s not the same thing is it?

    All I know is many of the games I’ve seen this season (whether the reds have been involved or not) have been a tough watch.
     
    Stephen Dawson and Jimmy viz like this.
  4. RichK

    RichK Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2007
    Messages:
    29,164
    Likes Received:
    2,610
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Some teams are stronger, some are weaker, same as every season in every division.
     
  5. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2012
    Messages:
    29,456
    Likes Received:
    18,912
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballet Dancer
    Location:
    Hiding under the bed
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Much worse. We have witnessed it with our eyes. Points accrued are pretty meaningless for qualitative analysis


    No one in this league is as good as Ipswich, Plymouth, Wednesday or last season us.

    With those probably playing in it next year there will never be an easier time to get promoted.
     
    wakeyred and Exile like this.
  6. Wat

    Watcher_Of_The_Skies Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2011
    Messages:
    9,199
    Likes Received:
    5,056
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Leeds
    Style:
    Barnsley
    Correct, points are finite, but you'd expect to see a greater spread of points between the top and bottom teams if there were significant changes in teams getting worse or better. GD might have been useful too, but I can't be arsed to go back and do it again o_O

    I can't comment on entertainment value, but I take at face value that we're not as entertaining as last year. We do have more points though!
     
    Stephen Dawson likes this.
  7. Wat

    Watcher_Of_The_Skies Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2011
    Messages:
    9,199
    Likes Received:
    5,056
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Leeds
    Style:
    Barnsley
    Biased eye witnesses are notoriously unreliable :D
     
  8. Marc

    Marc Administrator Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2012
    Messages:
    28,137
    Likes Received:
    22,872
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Based on what I’ve seen, significantly weaker
     
  9. portsmouth tyke

    portsmouth tyke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2011
    Messages:
    2,016
    Likes Received:
    1,928
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Ipswich, Wednesday and Ipswich were replaced by Reading/ Wigan ( points deductions, basket case clubs) and Blackpool who are not pulling up any trees, it's much worse than many seasons not just last ( imo)
     
  10. AthersleyRed

    AthersleyRed Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2011
    Messages:
    5,609
    Likes Received:
    3,759
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Better. No Fritzls
     
  11. Dragon Tyke

    Dragon Tyke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2011
    Messages:
    18,566
    Likes Received:
    5,655
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Saint Athan
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Better methinks
     
  12. Euroman

    Euroman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2005
    Messages:
    6,641
    Likes Received:
    784
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Training and Development Consultant retired
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    The quality of the leagues barely change. In a high quality league every team would have a close points tally.
     
  13. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2005
    Messages:
    42,722
    Likes Received:
    30,674
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    On Sofa
    Style:
    Barnsley
    The quality of the league depends on the agenda you've been pushing all season. For those that want Collins out then the league is much weaker as it's the only argument left that can be used to explain our good results.
     
  14. DSLRed

    DSLRed Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2006
    Messages:
    7,000
    Likes Received:
    5,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    wherever I lay my overnight bag!
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Objectively, I would say the overall quality is slightly worse, only on the basis that the 3 teams that went up were stand out teams last season and have been replaced by teams much worse than them.

    At the other end the teams that came up from L2 generally seem stronger than the teams they replaced. Even Carlisle seem to be in a false position based on how they played the other day.

    The rest of the teams in the middle can only be assumed to be roughly the same overall. Some are a bit stronger (Bolton, Portsmouth), some a bit weaker.

    I don't think there is a lot in it in terms of overall quality. However, it's clear that there are not the same stand out teams taking all the top spots that there was last season and on that basis alone, it's a good year to aim for promotion.
     
    Stephen Dawson likes this.
  15. Skryptic

    Skryptic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2015
    Messages:
    3,109
    Likes Received:
    3,299
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    There aren't as many strong teams at the top, however the quality in the middle and the bottom third is stronger, so there aren't any easy games. This is reflected in the position of the relegated teams, points deductions not withstanding, you'd expect at least one to be top six. Three out of four promoted teams being top half also suggests that they're stronger than the relegated teams from last year. Morecambe and Forest Green in particular were pretty poor, and again that has contributed to a fairly competitive league this time around.
     
  16. Che

    Chef Tyke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2005
    Messages:
    19,363
    Likes Received:
    12,252
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    West Stand Bogs
    Home Page:
    Style:
    Barnsley
    that’s how I see it too
     
    anstonred likes this.
  17. ronnieGlavinsB@stardSon

    ronnieGlavinsB@stardSon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2012
    Messages:
    3,037
    Likes Received:
    4,211
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Glasgow
    Style:
    Barnsley
    Does this matter? Are there less promotion spaces if it's considered 'weaker'? Will the table and any statistics relating to this season have an asterix against them stating they should be inferior because the league is considered 'weaker'? Ultimately, it's a moot point and something the Cassandras spout in an effort to jusitfy their view point.
     
    JLWBigLil likes this.
  18. JLWBigLil

    JLWBigLil Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2005
    Messages:
    50,797
    Likes Received:
    32,717
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Barnsley having a successful season = "weakest Division ever". As sure as night follows day.
     
  19. YT

    YT Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2020
    Messages:
    4,274
    Likes Received:
    17,203
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Over the last 10 seasons in this division, the average points total to go up automatically is 95 (we have 49 so far). We did it with 91 in 18-19. It's been done with 85 before (Burton 15-16).

    Usually, 28 wins gets you up (we have 14). We won 26 in 18-19. Burton won 25 in 15-16.

    So we'd need to slightly improve this season to pull that off. Based on statistical/historical averages.

    75 points - on average - gets you in the play-offs (over the last 10 years).

    You'd assume it would take one heck of a drop-off for us not to make the top six.

    60 points to play for.

    It might well come down to the games against Pompey (x1), Derby (x1), Oxford (x1) and Bolton (x2). And as has been pointed out a lot on here this season, those are the games we've faltered in. It's all very exciting to me anyway. We're in another promotion battle by the looks of it. Be nice to see the crowd rally behind Neill and the lads from kick off and help push them on much like fans did eventually last season. We all perform better with encouragement...
     
  20. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2012
    Messages:
    29,456
    Likes Received:
    18,912
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballet Dancer
    Location:
    Hiding under the bed
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    I don’t want Collins out but the league is definitely weaker

    The crowd will get more noisy if the football is less flat and boring
     

Share This Page