Nike England shirt, St George’s Cross

Flags and patriotism and sovereignty and all that jazz is currently just made up bollcks that people use to stir up emotions in others to win votes and bully folk with dark skin.

Just look at this thread. One poster wants to keep politics out of sport, but will no doubt want to stand for a minutes silence in November and demand a poppy on a shirt. Maybe it's just them gays he doesn't like.

The whole idea of patriotism falls apart when you realise it's just pure luck that the vagina you dropped out of belonged to someone from this bit of the world and not a Favela in Rio or a Township in Natal.

 

I don’t understand the outcry.

All England fans deface the flag, unless it’s behind the players I’ve never seen a St George’s cross without some writing across or club emblems in either corner. I have one myself.

Newcastle fans for example, change the colours to black and white, there’s a Wednesday one in blue and white.

It’s not new, this happens at every single England game for as long as I can remember.

 

Only one of the lions was for England though - the other two were for Normandy and Aquitaine. Richard 1st (Lionheart) added the two lions to represent the three countries he ruled.

 

I think you're generally right, but for a lot of people their patriotism is nationalism that they just want to call patriotism or as with this flag debate they use their "patriotism" as an excuse for their bigotry.

My personal view is that nationalism is a cancer that should be cut out and when so many nationalists call themselves patriots, the word partiotism starts to take on that meaning.

I personally couldn't care less about the flag on the shirt. I don't think it does any good or bad, I doubt anybody will feel more included by it being on there but at the same time I'm not against it. Why not try something different? It literally doesn't matter.

It pisses off all the right people though so that's made me lean towards wanting it to stay.

 

And?

 

The problem with that particular example, is that biology isn't black and white. For ~98% of the population, its easy to see what is male or female. But for the other 2%, they don't conform to standards. So, for example if you use GCSE biology, where female is XX and male is XY, then De La Chappelle (XX male) and Swyer (XY female) syndrome's mean that you have several million women with penises and a few thousand men with uteruses. And that is before you get into more complex conditions, like Klinefelter Syndrome (XXY) or Turner syndrome (XO) or even more complex conditions.

Other medical conditions, such as Persistent Mullerian Duct syndrome - which leaves biological men with some or all of fallopian tubes and a uterus, complicate it further. For every biological definition of sex or gender, there are people that fall outside of it. And that is before you get to the advances of medical science - many of which (despite JK Holocaust Deniers protestations) date back hundreds of years and were originally cancer treatments (the first mastectomy was in 1734 to treat breast cancer) and this research was among the first books burnt in Germany in the 1930s.

But then you have the papers saying "what is a woman?" and people who don't understand the complexity start shouting at anyone who upsets their world order and tries to explain reality.

 

Imagine thinking this is any sort of gotcha...

 

There's a part of me that genuinely thinks this whole cross thing, whether it's St George's or not, has been manufactured by Nike or the FA to deflect from the fact that the shirt is going to cost about £100

 

So, given the king gave up control of those territories several hundred years ago, we should only have 1 lion on the crest.

 

Forgive me for not having the historical knowledge of yourself , but I along with millions others have grown up with 3 Lions so I reckon we leave it at 3 eh?......oh and btw it would ruin a great football song that has also become a little bit of a tradition to sing!.......hopefully it’s Coming Home lol

 

If you want to support a team with one lion on the crest then you're more than welcome to join us

 

My ancestry means I need to support a team with a dragon...

 

They’re already marching about defacing our flag. How dare they?

Sacrosanct!

 

Hands up. How many bairners in this thread belong to the "I've absolutely no interest in the England football team" brigade?

 

No.....

@Red-Taff. He's all yours

 

Imagine being so bothered about a tiny detail on a football shirt. I'm more bothered if Henderson gets picked for the team tbh.

 

What will everybody think if it gets forced on to every club shirt as well ?.

 

Might as well ask what if Martians land and takeover BFC

 

What do you mean by 'What if.. ?', I thought they already had.