Sack him tonight

This for me, I hate playing at home. Even during our winning/undefeated runs the groans/moans and especially booing seemed bizarre. Can't wait for the fans to piss and moan at the likes of Kane moving on for nowt in the summer and wondering why they don't wanna stay. I can understand it more after our recent run, but not when we were on brilliant runs. Absolutely mental.

 

Were you sharing a bed whilst watching on iFollow?

 

Indeed we were.

 

I keep reading about this “far worse” squad..

Better keeper than last year
Same wing backs
Same midfield - compared to most teams, probably amongst the best in the division
Arguably better strike force with McAtee and Cosgrove added to Cole (we’ll not mention Watters!)
Which leaves just a weaker back 3 - I don’t think anyone would argue with that?

However, the back 3 isn’t the problem. It’s the total lack of making the best of the rest of the squad, a squad which probably 20ish clubs in this league would kill for. After pretty much every home game so far, can the coaches and players honestly leave the field and say, “We did everything we could to win that game”? If they think yes they did, they’re utterly deluded imho.

Poundland Southgate

 

I didn't actually say that. I said the team would be a better unit. Maybe they would have scored more in this poor league, maybe less. I'm basically saying the football would be better. Moot point though as Duff's not here. My main point is the one earlier where I tried to explain why Collins isn't doing a good job. The statistics say decent job, the performances on the pitch say poor. I think its the latter, you may disagree.

 

Yes, because he’d be playing worse teams week in week out than he did last season.

The only way I can describe how bad the standard of this year’s league one is that we are fifth in it - and we are absolute garbage.

 

Bizarrely the totally key turning point in the season was the one moment when we over-committed. 2-0 up against Bolton and we didn't get back quickly enough from a quick free-kick. The Clappers' irrationally anointed darling Durand was the one who could have done something about it but, as usual, didn't, getting out-sprinted by Big Vic of all people and then giving up and standing and watching with a bizarre gallic arm wave as the ex-Red tapped in to set in motion the skids under our season.

I still wouldn't sack Collins but if he keeps playing the awful Durand who I think now tops my all-time list of worst defenders I've seen in a Barnsley shirt he will deserve it. The problem with this team is the central defenders - last season we would have stayed in that game today at 0-0 long enough to get going elsewhere and probably win. We're actually still one of the top scoring sides in the division but our goals against record and inability to keep clean sheets is the problem. There's one constant in that and it's the number 6 and his legion of 'damaging (ie those leading to a goal or goal-scoring opportunity) defensive plays'.

Somebody also needs to tell Collins that it isn't an actual crime to substitute a defender with an attacker and that there is no written EFL rule that his team must always play five at the back for every minute of every game, even when losing 2-0 at home.

 

The footballs awful, but points wise he’s exceeded most people’s expectations. Many said mid table at best after losing ‘long haul’ Duff and our back 3.

I’m not sure how a mid table finish playing ‘ole’ football would have made him any more popular.

Bloke can’t win really.

 

You've put a lot of effort into that post, so I felt like I owe you a reply. But then half way down you say you know what my response will be, so I guess there's no point.

Last season we got 86 points. We now have 71 with 7 games left. It's not impossible we actually beat it. With a worse squad. Handicapped by Connell missing the first third of the season. Handicapped by Roberts being injured by the middle 3. Handicapped by losing Norwood on the eve of the season and him being replaced a month in by strikers who are clearly a huge downgrade. Anderson gone. Kitching gone. Thomas gone. Replaced by defenders who are clearly worse. Had to play Williams out of position because of a lack of trust in who the Board have brought in at RWB. That's not his fault - and it's been magnified by Williams not playing to his high standards. Handicapped by McAtee not being able to play more than 60 minutes cos he's either knackered or looking like getting sent off. This and the lack of striker options has led to him having to flog Cole because he's the only one who can put the ball in the net or last 90. Handicapped by Phillips having a poor start (he's had a great second half). Handicapped by his best centre half, and one that he surely had a hand in signing, now being out for the season.

So yes, 5th place after all those setbacks is a decent outcome I think.

A caveat I think I need to add. I've always defended Collins when people think he should be sacked. I think it's idiocy of the highest order. Especially when folk want Warnock etc. Yes I think he could do better. I wish we were more attacking. But then we're right up there in terms of goals scored in the division. I want us to improve. I don't want him sacked.

Oh and I'm not his lovechild either.

Enjoy your Saturday everyone!

 

Great post.

 

Well said.

I’ve said similar all season.

We’ve had a lack of height & pace at the back all season that restricts how we can play. We’ve got no wingers at the club & we’ve got no pace in the side. We’ve not even got a Luke Thomas type who’s quick & can get us up the pitch running with the ball.

People moan about the style of play but we literally can’t play any other way without exposing ourselves. You look at the options off the bench & barring Cotter there’s no pace at all.

All we achieve by upping the tempo & playing higher up the pitch is making it easier for the opposition to score.

 

Where’s the height & pace in that lot though? Where’s the wingers?

You’re right we do have some good players but we have massive deficiencies.

Theres no height or pace in the side which means we’re crap at set pieces & can’t play a high line.

There’s no pace in the side barring Williams & there’s no wingers in the squad.

We’ve got plenty of good technical footballers but are lacking in other components that make up a successful team.

 

Lack of pace across the squad is criminal. The home v away from difference is bonkers- compare yesterday with the 0-4 at Cambridge in the Autumn with pretty much the same team and it's chalk and cheese. Need a positive run into playoffs now and you never know but 1 point from 6 in the last fortnight is abysmal.....

 

Completely agree. We’ve been crap lately.

I think the big difference in home & away is the pace & height.

Away from home teams have a go at us because they have to really as the home side.

At home teams just sit in & counter.

You can just imagine every managers team talk - ‘lads just sit in & hit them on the counter attack, they’ve got no pace & if they bring you down they’ve got no height so we’ll do them at set pieces’

 

I never said I knew what your whole response would be, I said I think I knew what your conclusion about Collins would be and that I probably wouldn’t agree. I don’t. That said I also didn’t want to come across as antagonistic to you personally either, so apologies if I did - maybe the tone was affected by the emotion of the game but I maintain the gist of what I was trying to say.

I offer no argument that he wasn’t handed a weaker deck of cards than last season.

I acknowledge injuries to key players at the times you mention. They are all perfectly fair observations.

But for me, even taking all those things into account, there are still far too many concerns, and still far too many points lost where there should not have been.

Players not playing to their high standards - maybe people put that solely on the players themselves. But when so many - in fact let’s face it pretty much all of them - are playing below standards we’ve seen from them in the past, you have to question why.

Fatigue is mentioned - when we’ve looked at our worst after a full week or in yesterday’s case two weeks without a game.

Even new players brought in this season have declined in form under Collins having looked good to begin with. Roberts looked like the best keeper in the league early doors, recently not so much. Earl started off great, similar. Mael had a woeful start of course, but then came back looking like a really good ball playing defender - but recently looks like a huge liability.

Our existing better players have declined under his stewardship. Connell and Phillips are a shadow of what we have seen from them, not that Phillips was ever game dominant but we don’t see the end product from him we once did. Cole hasn’t even looked like a professional footballer in recent weeks. Cadden and whoever is playing right wing back barely ever so much as loft a cross to beat the first man. Everyone has looked poor, a shadow of what we know them to be capable of.

Many, and I can’t say unfairly, may conclude the coach can’t legislate for personal loss of form. That is a valid argument, but not one I’d concur with.

My conclusion is that Collins is not able to get the best out of his players, that something about him and his system has stifled them and drained all confidence out of them. That his system doesn’t suit them, and that his negative, dour approach, and maybe even demeanour, has taken away many of the attributes that made these players a force last season.

The debate is not far from becoming moot anyway I’d say. Whether or not you think Collins has done a fair job, whether or not you think the loss of form of individuals and the team as a collective is on him or them, whether or not you personally condone the home form in acceptance of the fantastic away form; it is, beyond debate, getting toxic at Oakwell.

Whether it is fair or not is somewhat irrelevant. The supporters are the only people that are constant. They might stay away from games yes, but they don’t all of a sudden start supporting Preston North End or Northampton. Managers, support staff, ownership groups, come and go. Fans don’t. And so if it carries on descending as it has in recent weeks, if the home form carries on as it has (and not just in terms of result, I’m not sure a 1-1 draw against Reading, arguably even a 2-1 win, including a really poor half and going one nil down early, will do that much to help him), there might not be much of a choice to make; and in fact Collins may walk away anyway. Booing them isn’t constructive so I wouldn’t say justified, though I’m loathed to criticise too much. That said I certainly don’t condone the plebs sending personal abuse to JAQ on X etc. But the club needs the financial backing of the fans, the Neanderthalic ones included unfortunately as we wouldn’t survive without them. Fair and justified or not, eventually they’ll have to give the majority what they want as the club will suffer financially if not.

What might help him though is that we have three away games before the next home one. Five away games this month from seven to play.

If we get seven or nine points from the next three, Reading might not be as toxic. If we then get a point at Fratton park followed by three at Bloomfield Road, we will probably see a much better atmosphere against Northampton, and go into the playoffs with less ill feeling.

If the away games don’t garner many results, even if that still leads to us scraping into the top six, I’m not sure there’s going to be enough of an argument to go against the wishes of the natives.

You can never be 100% sure if a manager has ‘lost’ the dressing room. There is plenty of evidence to suggest he might have. Though you can’t say for sure.

But it’s pretty clear that he’s lost a decent chunk of the fan base. The discontent is getting more vocal, more obvious, and wider spread. There’s only so far that can go.

 

So imho...we kind of agree we have a poorer set of players than last season (mainly defenders) ...have done well to accumulate the points we have.
At home we are a very poor watch.
We are very easy to play against, as we are too slow in transition.
Recruitment in the summer was terrible.
I'm not impressed with the play at home...I think the style has been done to death.
One thing I'll say for Collins is....he identified the (ahem) replacements from the summer and got them loaned out...so he recognized they weren't good enough.
I accept the defence is very poorly organized but playing a back four scares the hell out if me with these players!
Just another aside...could MDG make a better midfielder? I know he lacks pace...but he's half decent in the tackle and heading but he can pass a ball....just a thought for next year.

 

We do lack pace.

But Mael is 6’1”, Earl 6’3”, McCart 6’1”, Cole isn’t short, Phillips can win aerial duals.

And a lack of pace and height even if true does not explain how they can achieve better results away from home. A lot of the games the opposition even at home have sat back - it’d have been daft not to.

I can’t agree that he has no choice in how to setup and play. The approach hasn’t gained anything like the results we would expect at home - so a different approach with fallibilities and risks isnt guaranteed to be a worse option. And you can’t conclude being more direct, quicker in transition and less pedestrian on the ball wouldn’t work when it has never been tried.

I wouldn’t say Norwood was hugely rapid - who have we lost from last years high pressing, high intensity side that was quicker than we have now to prevent us from attacking with more purpose and intent as soon as we turn the ball over?

The central defenders you could argue might be more exposed - but the current ones aren’t exactly oil tankers turning, and Kitching, Thomas and Mads weren’t exactly Usain Bolt. There is a choice, he doesn’t have to be so risk averse. But he is frightened to attack the opposition at pace - when you have people like Cadden and Phillips, they aren’t rapid and aren’t going to beat players one on one from slow build up, but quicker transition can buy them space to provide end product like we saw last season. What we do now just allows the opposition to regroup and defend in numbers, and we continually fail to break that down. So why not change it up?

Of course that approach has its risks but what is the point of playing like we’ve seen against Cheltenham and Cambridge? What does the profligacy actually achieve? We concede chances and goals most weeks anyway. Why not maximise our chances of getting in front and further in front after that?

It’s idiocy to just carry on as we are. We can’t change the players we have for the rest of the season but we can decide to back their ability and unshackle them.

 

I think Collins made some bad decisions yesterday but let's face it he must look behind him and think what am going to do with this lot. Two right backs, midfielder's one on loan from league two and other slower than what's already on and Cosgrove 3 goals all season.

 

6 foot 1 isn’t tall for a centre back. De Gevigney & McCart are both pretty poor in the air. Earl’s better but he’s not been here most of the season. You could see the difference instantly when Pines came into the side. It was a huge strength to have a physically dominant centre back. We had 3 of them last season.

Anderson wasn’t the quickest but he was strong, good on the ball & dominant in the air. Can you imagine Lyle Taylor winding him up & beating him to headers like he did De Gevigney yesterday? Thomas was quick & Kitching was very quick.

Teams have attacked us at their own grounds. I’ve watched every away game bar one & even the poorer sides like Carlisle have had a go at us.

We had issues breaking sides down last season. It’s been well documented how we never came from behind to win under Duff but the big difference was we had a far better defence & were far better at set pieces so in games like Lincoln away where we drew 0-0 & our attacking players had an off day we still came away with a point. We couldn’t do that this season. They would’ve given a daft goal away. You look at the Bolton game in the play offs where we kept it tight & won it with a set piece. That’s impossible with this squad.

You say we’ve never tried it but there’s been plenty of occasions throughout the season where the tempos gone up where we’ve been chasing a game & we’ve ended up conceding again.

We have to control the game with the players we have. If it becomes end to end we’re going to come off second best the majority of times.

I don’t agree that Phillips has gone backwards. He started the season poorly but he’s been at last seasons levels for months. Connell’s not the same player as last season we can all see that but I think it’s harsh to blame the manager for that. We all know the condition he’s had. Mark Cavendish went off the boil for about 2 years when he had it.

We’ve been crap lately there’s no getting away from it but on the whole I think he’s done a very good job to have us 5th. Right now no one would back us in the play offs but we all know how quick form can change. It was only a few weeks back we were on a run of wins & there was a lot of positivity about.

If he gets us in the play offs with the defence we have & the Connell & Roberts issues in the first half of the season he’s done a cracking job in my opinion.

 

I think it's a ludicrous suggestion to sack him at this stage of the season with 6 league games left. I've been a positive supporter of Collins and the players throughout the season, particularly Collins given the situation he was dealt with the defence and lack of adequate replacements until January. That doesn't mean I'm a happy clapper, in fact yesterday I was extremely disappointed with the performance and result. I'd also add that the style of football could be better.
Both the head coach and players need to get their acts together very quickly or we could miss the play offs entirely or go into them with zero momentum and confidence at rock bottom. I always said the minimum aim for Collins was the play offs and failure to achieve that should see him moved on, my view on that hasn't changed. I've never felt like we've been a top 2 contender either, I just don't think we've shown enough quality and even if the Bolton result had been different I still don't think we'd have gone on to get second.
If we make the play offs and fail to go up then I'm sure there will be discussions about Collins position but that's for another day. The best we can do now is get behind him and the players for the remaining games.