Who thinks Collins was the biggest problem at the club

I put Watters in because it was an actual starting lineup from LAST season not this season. Watters is still at the club so if he's not playing then either we currently have better strikers or the manager has made a poor decision not to play him right?

I completely disagree that the numbers tell the story or that they don't lie because all things are not equal. The numbers do not say anything about quality of opposition at all, they just don't.

 

Yes. Because while it is perfectly acceptable to say that we have a weaker team it's absolutely ludicrous to suggest anyone else does

 

Claiming certain clubs have a weaker squad isn't. Claiming that every team is weaker and therefore the division as a whole is much poorer seems to be pushing credibility beyond breaking point.

 

Sorry yes, got confused in my old age.

 

Sorry yes, I misunderstood your point re. Watters.

As for the other point, Jay articulated it better than I did.

 

Anyone? We’re not talking individual clubs. There’s people on here trying to suggest that nearly every club in the league has got worse over one summer.

We were talking to a Cheltenham fan a bit ago who thinks their side is better this season than last & they’re going down this time where as they finished 16th last season. They were one of the worse teams I’ve ever seen at this level last season.

Shrewsbury finished top half last season & they were anti-football. I’ve not seen any sides as bad as they were in the top half this season.

 

The overall quality of the league is worse. No one has the quality of Portsmouth, Ipswich, Wednesday or last season us.

Some teams in the division have made incremental improvements most have like us gone either slightly backwards or backwards to a great extent.

Having first seen us at this level in 1979 it is the weakest it has ever been. Mainly due to clubs higher up the pyramid hoarding players and former ‘big’ players now able to stay fitter to play at a higher level longer. In 1979 we had a couple of ex England internationals playing for us that sorta thing rarely happens now.

Next Season will be far stronger. Clubs coming up look much more able to compete at the top end of the table rather than Carlisle et al. Clubs coming down will all be very strong at this level especially the ones that. financially outmuscle us.

I get that no one wants to be ‘wrong’ but Collins was an absolute disaster. In a weak league he struggled and all our permanent playing staff got worse other than Phillips who remained his enigmatic self.

I’d expect us next season to operate at lower mid table unless we luck on a good manager and recruitment. Shorn of our better players that Collins has wasted it’ll be a struggle.

 

I don’t see O’Keeffe been anything more than an average wing back at this level. I know some rate him but I’ve not been impressed. If Lofthouse is as good as some Gateshead & MK Dons reckon then I imagine he’ll take that spot.

Styles would be a decent wing back at this level but his hearts not in it & I imagine we want shut due to his wages.

I’ve no issue with Russell playing at this level for us. He’s also a big help at set pieces. We’re far weaker at them when he doesn’t play.

Connell’s a big worry with his health.

I’ve wrote off Benson to be honest.

I would keep Marsh & recruit another big lad. Cosgrove & the second big lad competing for one spot & Jalo, Watters & Marsh competing for the other or even the option to go 4-3-3 if we can sign a winger & have Jalo, Watters & Marsh competing for spots as wide forwards. We would all like better quality up top but I doubt we can afford it.

It just worries me that even with the loanees going back & all the out of contract players leaving that we’ve still got 20 first team players on the books many of whom no one wants to see start. How do we get them off the wage bill to be able to replace Roberts, Williams, Cadden, Kane. Cole & Mcatee with any kind of quality?

 

He wasn’t a disaster at all.

I didn’t think we would make play offs after the August transfer window finished & I now think we will.

Recent forms been crap but without all the results he helped ground out before Christmas with a far weaker team we would’ve been nowhere near.

 

I think at the end that Neill HAD the biggest problem at the club. There were tell-tales signs with his swearing at the Reading game and then not shaking Critchley's hand after the Blackpool game. In the latter case, I don't think that it was contempt for Critchley, but just Neill's own emotions. You can do two things with anger and frustration when they reach extremes - you can turn them inwards, but they then become self-destructive, or you can turn them outwards and they then risk damaging others and your relationship with them.

If it's been the former, then I really do feel for Neill. I hope that there are folks who can get round him and support him through what has been a very disappointing end of season. If this is the case, he may have been thinking enough is enough and it may seem like relief to be able to walk free. Very hard job when it is not only that you are not getting the results you want, but also have a few thousand folk baying at you on the terraces and through social media. That's as tough as it gets.

If it's the latter, it is possible that an angry Neill damaged his relationships with the players to the extent that it became irreversible. After all, it has been a negative crucible for him for several games now. If it resulted in an angry spat with the board on Monday as well, the board may have felt that the relationship with them had broken down to the extent that his position was untenable.

I can't guess which scenario it may have been, or a mixture of both. Don't do anything daft now, Neill, not even drowning your sorrows too much, mate. You will come again somewhere, sometime and i add my best wishes for wherever and whatever that might be.

 

Can you imagine and it's still a possibility that we have that group of player's at championship level. I would think them players would just have enough to keep us in league one but shudder just thinking about them in the championship. To build a team to get out of this league is one thing look at Plymouth they looked very good last season but when the loanees went back they have struggled,Ipswich are the model but that takes much gold to achieve money we simply don't have.