Imane Khelif

So I, or indeed any other male identifying as a woman, could turn up e.g. at the olympics as a woman, and compete in female catagories?

 

If you fall within the rules of the olympics, sure. Those rules will require you to have gone through years of hormone therapy most likely and to ensure that your testosterone is within certain limits.

It's different rules from sport to sport so depends which sport you think you'll be able to qualify for I suppose.

 

I'll be honest. I think this thread isn't really the place for this debate. This is really about whether it's ok to falsely accuse someone of being a different gender and get away with it. Not about what the criteria are to compete in professional sport.. these are very different issues and cloud each other when mixed like this.

We don't know the absolute truth of Khelif's gender status right now but we do know that some very famous people said some aggressively horrible things about her on the basis of some very vague statements from a a discredited organisation with close ties to the Kremlin.

 

Yes but your view is that all you need to do is identify as a woman in order to be a woman. Then you could compete as a woman - is that your view - that the rules that different sports have introduced should be removed?

And that all you have to do is say you're a woman?

 

Threads go all over the place. Always have and always will.

Your own post is all over the place and quite presumptious with assertions of falsely and horrible and vague and discredited. Yet presumably we can't debate what you've already decided upon?

 

I believe in innocent until proven guilty.

Present me some evidence that Imane Khelif is a man or not qualified to compete in women's sport

 

Reas the interview at the bottom of this article and tell me there is any clarity from the IBA

IBA holds chaotic news conference on Olympic boxing row - https://www.bbc.com/sport/olympics/articles/cq5dd2lz8y8o

I also watched the nearly 3 hour press conference. I won't make you do that. It was a farce

 

I am not here to get involved with this particular individual's circumstances without all the evidence.

She was at the previous olympics and someone beat her, so my own simplistic view is that this time round a whining Italian opponent combined with a slack IOC criteria ("does it say female on your passport?") combined to give the media a field day.

No favours were done by an apparent refusal to do a simple chromasome test though.

 

I mean it's illegal to be transgender on Algeria so to even give audience to it would put her at risk

 

Fair enough.

My gripe, or perhaps better my concern, is for fair and equal competition amongst females.

People otherwise can do what the hell they like and call themselves whatever they like.

It seems strange to me that trans get so obsessed about being accepted as either male or female. I'm not bothered in the slightest so why should they be?

 

Yes i think if someone identifies as a woman they’re a woman.

I never said i think that means they should be able to compete, it doesn’t make them any less of a woman though.

In the same way that a man with two legs not being allowed compete in the amputee events at the paralympics doesn’t make him less of a man.

 

I wouldn't know if 99% of people commenting on it did that or not. Seems like that would be impossible to quantify as a statistic.
Some will have, some will have used it to fit an existing agenda they wanted to shout about.
Some will have mistakenly just believed she was Trans due to the outcry.
Some swill have heard of a failed Gender test that was reported and take that as fact.
Some will have heard the refused to take a chromosome test (I don't know if that's true just read it online) and jumped to a conclusion.

Also think you've made a leap from being angry about JK Rowling (see I did read those quotes - so caught those 2!) To being angry at something I haven't actually seen.
"she can't be a woman she likes football" or "she isn't wearing a dress" or "her breasts are too small"
You're obviously passionate about this issue and I commend you for it. You just don't seem as calm and reasoned as you normally do in posts.
That being said bigotry and hatred is very depressing and one of the downsides of technological progress is it has even more places to spread.

 

I have had multiple trans friends over the years and my current CEO is trans.. none have expressed any striking opinions that trans women should be allowed to compete with cis women. The only thing I have heard is that they would like there the be the opportunity for trans male and females to compete at a higher level. As in have their own categories where demand exists.

Much of the "men want to compete as women" narrative I have seen has been in opinion pieces and social media posts from right wing commentators looking to generate outrage. It's exactly why they all jumped on Khelif to spin their narratives. They never actually give audience to the accused.

 

You're ignoring the implications of allowing anyone to identify as a woman.

What about toilets and changing rooms etc. - are your self identifying women able to use these spaces?

 

You're not allowed to use your multiple trans friends argument on here mate.

I've tried the "I've had ethnic others" as friends but that doesn't mean I'm not a racist if it suits the argument of the majority on here.

I've had trans as clients - no big deal.

I think that most people think that trans needs to be a "transition" from one "sex" to the other but it doesn't.

Nevertheless i never want to see anything other than fair competition when it comes to female sport.

If a few unknowables in the middle are casualties, then so be it.

 

Yes of course. Trans people just want to get on with their lives. Any made up risk of allowing trans people to enter those spaces is a pointless argument.

The risk of them sexually assaulting someone is no different to the risk of anyone sexually assaulting anyone. A cis man could walk into a female toilet anyway. There’s no magic barrier only allowing women in. If someone wants to go in there and sexually assault someone the only thing stopping them is the fact it’s illegal. It’s illegal if that’s a trans woman, cis man or anyone else.

 

Correct, having "ethnic others" as friends doesn't mean you can't be racist. Just as having trans friends doesn't mean you can't be transphobic.

But that's not what he said. He's sharing their experiences, not using it as a get out of jail free card.

 

All I'm saying is I've literally never met a single trans person who ever talks about this. It's always other people saying they want this and leading into the same old transphobic rhetoric

I mean Google the subject and find anyone who is actually trans being interviewed or writing articles on it. It's always non trans people talking about it on both sides of the argument. Mental when you think about it.

I get that a few athletes competed before the rules were changed.. they did nothing wrong but in my opinion the rules should have caught up quicker and stopped them getting to elite level

 

But I think the opposite. By saying dressing in a certain way makes you one sex, liking certain things makes you one sex. Men and women should be able to dress as they want without fear of ridicule. I'm a woman and I don't want to be known as having a cervix or someone who menstrustes.

 

Not just at elite level though.