Why did they announce that there had been racist chanting from the ponty end?

True tolerance should include open debate and engagement, not suppression, even of intolerant ideas. By encouraging dialogue rather than imposing restrictions, a society may prevent extremist ideas from gaining traction, fostering understanding and preventing violence without undermining tolerance.

 

Which I never suggested they couldn't. So looks like we agree.

 

Perhaps I'm not as open minded as you, as I don't make excuses for the ignorant Wednesday fan, or Intolerant, sectarian bigotry.

 

Perhaps we do.

 

I'd suggest we're probably a lot closer to agreeing than we are opposed on what we believe is acceptable.

 

The problem is, if someone is truly intolerant, then its like arguing with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. As an example, if someone is a neo-Nazi who wants to kill all immigrants, then there is no way to debate them without getting dragged down to that level. That is the extreme example, but as the saying goes "If you sit down to eat with 5 Nazis, by the time you finish dessert you have 6 Nazis eating".

 

Think the key word is empathy, something that is eroding in todays society.

Having said that, my personal belief is that people keep mistaking being offended with the impossible logic of being offended on behalf of someone else.

Nobody should have to decide where to draw the line. Surely a person who has a degree of empathy knows within themselves what is truly right and wrong.

 

I agree protecting a true free and tolerant society is difficult.
However I don't believe the limit to where we need to step in with hate speech laws is when someone feels insulted. That's all I've actually been saying here.

 

There's me thinking I said he got what he deserved.

I'm offended that you didn't read my post correctly.

 

That's because I'm ignorant and not as clever as you.
I believe that idiot got what he deserved, but those who participate in sectarian comments and chanting don't.

 

I remember the Harry Robert's song as if it were yesterday. I never sang it even though it was my age group at the time. I was 9. But it went on for yrs. It wasn't part of my psyche even then.

The refs a w4nker I joined in still do lol. (Shout not chant)

 

Neither have most of the priests nor the IRA members.

Plus surely saying **** the IRA is no worse than the whole of Oakwell chanting **** off Wednesday.

 

If anything it's worse. Wednesday are just a football club who we don't like because they happen to be geographically close to us. They are not a terrorist organisation responsible for killing people.

 

Catholics aren't child abusers, nor terrorists. Just as Muslims aren't child abusers & terrorists (despite what Farage, Anderson, Robinson et al try to claim).
Anyway, I've said my piece.

 

It doesn’t the 20 grand Barry Cotter one I believe mentions the IRA but Hooky Fella was asking about the one aimed at the Stockport player.

 

The IRA are terrorists though and various Pope's have covered up horrific amounts of pedophilia.
Christians and Muslims are like all of society a cross section of people many of whom are wonderful.

Christianity and Islam are religions filled with hateful holy texts. We should and luckily in this country still are allowed to say so.

One Pope fairly recently (I'll admit I don't keep up with the when they last changed) told the people of Africa (a continent ravaged by HIV) that using condoms was a sin.
I'm comfortable saying F##k him and the horse he rode in on.

 

Maybe I'm abit more laid back then you. I wouldn't challenge anyone on what they belive in as it doesn't concern me. Believe what you want along as its not harming me. I worked with a born again Christian years ago who had been a bad lad when younger it turned his life around I didn't say "look mate your wasting your time it's not real"
At a football game of 14k people there's a good chance someone will be offended if we sing **** the pope or **** Allah or whatever plus no one wants to hear it.
It's like the bloke at home to cov few years back doing nazi salutes if he did one to me I wouldn't be offended but I can see why people would and he was rightly banned. Hope this helps.

 

I'm with you on most of that mate. And can understand your point to a degree on the salute that it didn't offend you personally. But the Nazi salute is an offence to society in general as to what it represents. Maybe not so much young uns. But most of a certain age who respect what our elders did against a regime of crimes against humanity. Those who salute at right wing protests are imo scum or ill educated following their peers in the group. Mostly the latter.
I understand that's the reason you are sympathetic to those who are offended. But wanted to put some bones on it for our younger element on here not aware of why it is deemed so offensive.
Re the christianity element. I was brought up a christian as a Wesleyan and won't knock those that practice what they preach. (Morality starts with your parents and upbringing, problem is if parents have no morals. My Mam n Dad grew up in the church but didnt practice after adult age. Both still believers. Church would have enforced those morals.) But the Bigotry and lack of understanding at the highest level in any form of religion. Astounds me at times.
Take the confession box. Forgiveness and hail Mary's. Is out of touch with todays society Imho. Don't do it in the first place. Nowt to forgive. If you do. the priest or god is the last person you should apologise to.

 

In this country specifically, the historical context of the overt and convert prejudice against Catholics, adds something to a group of men chanting "fk the Pope" though. Catholics could not vote until The Catholic Emancipation Act of 1829 that granted Roman Catholics in England and Ireland the right to vote, hold public office, and sit in Parliament. Remember Ireland was a part of this country at the time. You can't simply look at this in isolation and say, well, what's so offensive about that? If you don't understand the historical context - and to be fair the history of the Catholic people of England is left untaught and unknown and ignored. Its pretty much the last acceptable bigotry and people cling on to it for dear life, even if its not intended the centuries of propaganda against Catholics come to the surface real quick.
Like I say, would their be a different reaction to "fk Muhammad" or "fk Krishna"?

 

Never knew that interesting especially when England was and still would have been a Catholic county had it not been for Henry the 8th 500 years or so ago wanting to remarry and the pope not approving it. He then went on to form the church of England.