Barnsley fan jailed

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by wakeyred, Nov 21, 2024.

  1. Fon

    Fonzie Well-Known Member

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    It's not an opinion though.

    It is factually correct to say that there are more white grooming gangs than Asian.

    It is also fact to say that there are no legal routes for asylum seekers to enter the UK at the minute.

    Those are facts, not opinions. And if you don't accept them, then I don't know what to tell you.
     
  2. red

    redrum Banned Idiot

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    But when they have a terrorism manual and have produced ricin and previously been investigated by counter terrorism it puts another spin on it and needs investigating? Do you not agree?
     
  3. wak

    wakeyred Well-Known Member

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    There's a group of people on here who love to harvest social status by conspicuous displays of moral grandstanding, coupled then with the enforcement of their established collective moral norms through identifying and denouncing individuals who violate said norms. Most often accompanied by lazy accusations of racism and calls for enactment of bans, etc. Just my opinion like, but as Foucault observed - neoliberalism dissolved the traditional roles of worker and capitalist and turned everyone into an 'entrepreneur of themselves', this leads to one's moral character, rather than merely a status symbol, becomes a market asset - the individual becomes a life-long entrepreneur of his own moral self. Thus all this online fighting over 'ethical capital' becomes a form of morality-based economic war.
     
    cudeth red, redrum and Kiz like this.
  4. Fon

    Fonzie Well-Known Member

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    In this case, probably yes. And the independent enquiry will ultimately tell us that. Hopefully we can then improve the system to ensure that this doesn't happen again.

    Hopefully there'll be this level of scrutiny the next time a white bloke goes nuts and murders children.
     
  5. Fon

    Fonzie Well-Known Member

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    Not really.

    As I've mentioned previously, I just don't like racists that's all. It was the reason myself and my brother in law stopped going to away games. And it's the reason I don't like folk been racist.

    Surely that's not hard to get? It's not a point scoring game of I'm Better Than You. It's just that racism is bad.
     
  6. wak

    wakeyred Well-Known Member

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    Even the article admits the stats are dubious and out of date, and if you are talking relative to the general population then according to the stats in the article their are more Pakistani's who have been convicted of being in grooming gangs then white people, so I don't think this is the slam dunk you think it is.
     
  7. Tarntyke

    Tarntyke Well-Known Member

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    Does more convictions mean there are more occurrences or that there is better ‘detection’ in one area than another?
     
  8. Fon

    Fonzie Well-Known Member

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    I'm not trying to slam dunk. And as I stated, the figures were slightly out of date - but as the gap was so much, the chances of them flipping are pretty low.

    I'm glad you're focusing on that though, and not that racism is bad. It's a really, really good point of view to have.

    But sorry, I'll stop now. I guess I'm just taking the moral highroad, or whatever you lot like to dress it up as.
     
  9. onemickybutler

    onemickybutler Well-Known Member

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    I have a grown up daughter who regularly attended dance classes as a child/adolescent and the thought of her not coming home from one because some maniac with a knife had ran amok chills me to the bone. Three families lost innocent little girls and I dared to agree with someone saying that the public needs answers to how this could have happened when the individual was known to the authorities. This now makes me a fascist apparently.......
     
  10. wak

    wakeyred Well-Known Member

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    I don't see why every post has to be predicated with the statement that racism is bad, but then I'm not virtue signaling. I guess the fact that the motivations behind many of these gangs were racist must blow your mind, if you stopped to think about it. Are you going to condemn the racists Pakistani rape gang members in every post?
     
  11. Fon

    Fonzie Well-Known Member

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    Of course I am. Racism is bad. I've said that. British Asian grooming gangs are bad. They're bad people. Let's arrest and convict them.

    See, it's easy. I genuinely don't know what your point is. Mine is just racism is bad. Whether it's white on black. Black on Asian. Asian on white. Any which way is racism. Its bad

    I genuinely don't get it.
     
  12. troff

    troff Well-Known Member

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    I’ll reply to you as Kiz has said he isn’t responding anymore, and fair enough.

    Have a word and keep it in private. If he has no racial prejudice that is great.

    However some of his postings DID point towards prejudice - even if he isn’t fundamentally racist he displayed leanings at the very least.

    I haven’t asked for a ban for anyone but I have called out rowing back from what was originally stated - and I stand by that. What was being said in the first posts is not what was claimed to have been said later.

    However, if he can get to the point where it is accepted that this attack was a heinous act of psychotic violence, not terrorism, and that it was caused by a failure to deal with an individual with a serious mental health issue which was identified well in advance, as opposed to an individual acting under a religious or political motivation, then that is what the whole point is.

    His colour, and/or the fact his parents are migrants, are not relevant.

    His obtaining of terrorist handbooks does not make his act one of terrorism.

    Maybe the language used was just a bit misguided and lazy; but it is things like that which add to the fire and lead to racist disorder, riots in our streets, extremists trying to barricade people in hotels and burn them alive.

    We need to be careful what we write.

    I accept I need to be careful about what conclusions I draw and what I accuse - fair - however protestations that state that someone isn’t racist as they use a forum that has a ‘Pakistani and a German’ in it don’t help in concluding otherwise.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2025 at 12:56 PM
  13. wak

    wakeyred Well-Known Member

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    Given that the vast majority of people involved have never been convicted, I’d say no.
     
  14. Sco

    Scoff Well-Known Member

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    The vast majority of child abuse - and murder for that matter - occurs within a small group known to the victim, usually immediate family, close friends of the family or someone in a position of trust (teacher, priest, scout leader, coach, etc.). A smaller subset of abusers target multiple victims - these can be White British (Jimmy Saville), British Asian (Rotherham/Rochdale, etc.), Romanian (as with the gang a couple of weeks ago), American (Andrew Tate and his brother), they can also be Christian, Muslim or Atheist.

    We are now more likely to convict the gangs of serial abusers, but you are correct the majority of abusers will not be convicted and the majority (80-90%) will be white British simply due to demographics.

    The other argument is which is worse and where should we concentrate our attention, an abuser that abuses 10 children once each, or an abuser that abuses one child 10 times?
     
  15. wak

    wakeyred Well-Known Member

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    The point is that 1000s of girls were let down by a society for a number of reasons - sexism, classism and a fear of racism. The way the debate is shutdown on here is exactly the problem, you can’t talk about it because you’re going to be accused of racism. This leaves the door open for actual racists to take the moral high ground.
     
    Kiz likes this.
  16. red

    redrum Banned Idiot

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    I think there's this level of scrutiny because he had already been referred to counted terrorism, he produced ricin and I don't think he went for a newspaper and accidentally came back with a terrorism manual.
    Looks like he should have been locked up or had closer monitoring before this happened. Like we both agree a independent review is for the best.
     
    Fonzie likes this.
  17. Fon

    Fonzie Well-Known Member

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    The thing is though, unless you are aiming to raise awareness of ALL grooming, then you are showing racial prejudice. As mentioned in the post above yours, predatory groomers come from all walks of life. Yet the problem is seemingly only raised when it's the lads with the brown skin.

    You never see Tommy Robinson trying to expose what happened in Jersey, or at Crewe, or at Celtic. Where was he when Bennell was convicted?
     
    Tarntyke likes this.
  18. Tarntyke

    Tarntyke Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think debate is being shut down, people opt out of a thread for various reasons, ranging from their point being criticised for lack of substance to support it, got bored with the long thread, etc, etc.
     
  19. Jud

    Juddy G Well-Known Member

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    So have we all had a nice day ? Not sure what any Of this has to do with that benefit cheat in the OP but have we signed a bstard striker yit ?
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2025 at 6:13 PM
  20. onemickybutler

    onemickybutler Well-Known Member

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    Haha…..have we b*****ks!!
     
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