Germany calling

The problem is complex and multi faceted and I am just glad I am not the person tasked with solving it.

We have a rapidly ageing population with ever increasing numbers of pensionable age people who need supporting by people in work. So we need to import people to do the work. Our economy depends on it.

But we also don't help ourselves by having an increasingly work shy population and a benefits system that encourages it. I am not sure of the figures and haven't googled it so someone will be able to correct me but isn't it something like 6% of working age people signed off on long term sick? It can't really be true that 6 in 100 people (if that is the right number) are too sick to do any work, but when we incentivise getting signed off because it pays much more, what other outcome do we expect. But even that is more complex because many of those people will want to get back to work but cant because they are waiting forever to be treated because of the state of the health service. Layers of complication.

It's not easy, thats for sure. It's been a growing problem for years and years. So yes, in the meantime, we need to import workers. And immigration is therefore a positive to society as a whole. But it's all about perceptions in the minds of ordinary people. Illegal immigration, such as people coming in on small boats, is a tiny fraction of the legal migration numbers, but its the boats that are on the telly, so people see it as a problem. When in reality, the problem is that legal migration is too high for many reasons, including above.

Germany have a real issue because of it. France is heading the same way. As is the Netherlands. People perceive that the problem is out of control. They see people talk about whole towns where the fabric of the place has changed. They see seemingly endless stories about yet another atrocity where someone has ploughed a car through a crowd of folk and killed innocent kids. They perceive that they are not safe like they once were. Whether it's true or not. And they see politicians not do anything to address it and make them out to be ignorant or racist. So they vote instead for people who tell them it will be different.

It's happening all over Europe to different degrees and if our politicians are not seen to be addressing people's concerns here, whether those concerns are real or perceived, it will happen here too. And people will then wonder what the hell happened and why did it come to this.

I was sat on a bench on the platform at Rotherham station yesterday waiting for the train, and 2 old blokes sat next to me and starting talking about how the country is going to shat, how it's 'the negros fault' and that Enoch Powell was right all along. It blew my mind. Its difficult to get your head around views like that, but while they exist, it makes no difference how many times people on here make the case for it being of no concern and that other people are just ignorant. It's needs politicians to address the issues and to be seen to address them. Otherwise new ones will be invited to, in due course.

 

Not like nazis to inflate numbers and just tell absolute lies for their own purposes.

I'm absolutely shocked.

 

You do know that there is no legal way for asylum seekers to enter the country don't you? Also that they have to get here before they can claim asylum? The small boats thing didn't happen before Brexit because we had agreements with France so that they could apply for asylum while they were still in France. Since Brexit, all that has gone so they have no choice but to risk their lives in small boats. You might ask why they want to come here and the reasons are many, including family, language and a perception that the UK is a good place to be.

Edit; As pointed out to me earlier, the "small boats" started when France closed the refugee camp near Calais in 2016 but really took off after Brexit. This was what Fartage was able to use in the referendum campaign, pretending that Brexit would fix.

 

Yes I do know that. And I have tried to make it clear that I don't personally perceive the boats to be the issue that it is made out to be, because it is a tiny fraction of total immigration numbers. But then, as I have been trying to say, I am not the problem. I have just been trying to objectively lay out what I believe could happen down the track because many people DO believe it to be a problem.

Results are in from Germany. AfD confirmed in 2nd place. God knows what happens now with the other parties all having a pact of no co-operation with them. The country's parliament could be paralysed for months. Which is not a good look because 20% of the country voted for them and expect their parliamentarian to get on with it and do what they have asked and work with them. So around they go again in a few months.

 

It's a bit more complicated than that tbf Brush...the first small boat crossings were in 2016/17 following France's decision to close the Sangatte refugee camp.

 

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80% of the voting public kicked the neo-nazie party AFD into touch after being backed by Musk and JD Vance, I don't get your analysis of the country's parliament could be paralyzed for months, as 20% does not come anywhere near 80%

 

Because Germanys democracy works on a proportional representation basis. Which means

1. AfD have 20% of the seats

2 CDU as the largest party have nowhere near enough seats to form a working majority

3. This means that there always has to be alliances made to form a government but none of the other parties will work with AfD.

Time will tell. It usually takes weeks.

 

You are far more likely to be sexually assaulted or murdered by a member of your family or close friend than you are by a stranger from abroad.

 

CDU and SPD will form a(nother) coalition. It might take a week or two, but it will happen.

 

It also coincided with the clampdown on migrants crossing in lorries and when they started fining lorry drivers for the number of illegal immigrants in the trailer.

 

I believe they will cope and form a working coalition, the alternative is unthinkable.

 

Yes, that's way I said I read it wrong

 

All this hatred/anger over immigration is misplaced for me. It is a smokescreen for more fundamental problems within societies. Yes, people do get concerned and frightened sometimes if they feel their sense of self-identify is under threat and if immigration 'seems' to be out of control the flames will get fanned by far-right and racist players. However, the underlying reasons for discontent are deeper and more complex imo. In Britain for example I think the disaffection that people feel is as a result of gradually worsening economic conditions, failure of governments to improve lives over many years, worsening infrastructure, lack of investment (particularly outside the south east) and a failure to address income and wealth inequality which has happened long-term as a result of Thatcherism and the idea of low tax (for the richest in particular) and small state. The immigration 'debate' is convenient as it focuses on something which seems simple and which provides people with a focus which they can turn their anger on. Its easy to blame immigrants for all society's problems even when many immigrants contribute to society when they settle. Until fundamental issues start to get addressed the focus on immigration and the perceived problems immigrants bring will continue because its easier to do that. Farage and the right are hollow and devoid of real ideas though. They wont improve the vast majority of lives but people will turn to them because they are disillusioned and they focus on a simple, easy fix. Labour, Lib Dems etc need to wake up, tackle decline and poverty and give people some hope that their own lives will improve. If people generally are content they'll be less inclined to get angry.

 

Perfectly true. The only people that can address the problem are the current government. Unfortunately, they can do little to change things right now - the Budget doesn't come into force till April for example. I think they have done a few things wrong of course; winter fuel payments, waspi women, 2-child limit for benefits etc. Only time will tell if they can successfully address our problems, by which time the next General Election will be looming fast. Fingers crossed.

Edit; they have had success with NHS waiting times, they are falling at a time when normally they get worse in the winter. I don't understand why they are not shouting about this at every opportunity.

 

That’s the problem. The far right machine posts any old sh**e and their targets eat it up without question. Then parrot the nonsense on sites such as this. Or down the pub. And so on.

Education education education.

 

Quite.

That disgusting orange turd in a toupee and his outwardly racist handler Musk are fantastic at amplifying this shìt, simply by posting "Lots of people are saying <>" or "Hearing that xyz. Worrying!". 50k likes from bots on twitter and all of a sudden its the truth.

 

Good to see you proudly advertising your racism for all to see with your profile picture.

Not that you weren’t before, mind.