Sacking staff vs results - long term

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by JDB, Mar 13, 2025 at 12:40 PM.

  1. JDB

    JDB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    573
    Likes Received:
    271
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    The forum has been littered with threads in the past few months about sacking Mladen, Clarke, Flatman, the board...and anyone else for that matter. I just wonder whether the fans who are asking for staff to be sacked have reflected on whether previous sackings have had the desired impact?

    In general, teams who have had mid-long term success (relative to their size) have kept managers for longer. Similarly, clubs that have stable backroom teams, including recruitment teams, DOF, CEO, Board, academy staff, physios etc generally do better. Why do you think that is?

    In my opinion, teams that keep managers/staff for longer do better because fewer things are changing at any one time. That means that the teams can make incremental improvements over a period of time. Instead of selling players and getting a brand new squad (at great cost), those clubs are using multiple transfer windows to get incrementally better. Now the results might not always be immediate, I have a feeling our recent windows have been focused on signing players who are good value for money, have potential to be championship standard, and are on significantly lower wages (due to our year-on-year operational losses). But over time they move us closer to our medium term goals (getting to the Championship and staying there).

    So why have we not kept our good managers for longer? Quite obviously, it's because those who do well are poached from higher up the food chain. For me, that was one of the main reasons to keep Clarke. He's done OK, albeit not always inspiring, he isn't fashionable - so unlikely to be poached from higher up, and he was working with a squad that is heavily in transition. I genuinely believe that a few better windows would have seen him shown incremental improvements.

    Now he's gone, I think the club need to focus on a period of stability. We need to sign players and treat them well (too many players have slated us after leaving). Keeping good players for longer will make us better. We need to develop ourselves on and off the pitch. Hopefully the fanzone and other initiatives (like the boxing) will help us there. We need clear, stable progression from the academy into the first team - so someone who appreciates the opinions of those who work in it. And finally, we need a manager who will stick around. To me that points to an internal candidate - someone who is respected internally but unfashionable enough to not be poached.

    In short, stop sacking everyone and we might find that stability (on and off the pitch) begins to create results. We've hired and fired for years - there has to come a time we question whether making the same decision again will help (in the medium term).
     
    Merde Tete, Kiz, Winker and 1 other person like this.
  2. dod

    dodgey defence Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2008
    Messages:
    5,357
    Likes Received:
    5,863
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Joiner
    Location:
    Wakefield
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    So do we need to sack Mladen for sacking managers that shouldn't be sacked :D
     
    Merde Tete and Winker like this.
  3. JDB

    JDB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    573
    Likes Received:
    271
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Well he's only sacked two so far!

    I'd question whether Mladen intends to stay here in the long term (I suspect not). If that's the case, we'd be justified in sacking him and appointing someone with a long term affinity for the club, who recognises the value of our recruitment method, promotes youth, and knows how to deal with transfers. Again, could be an internal candidate.
     
    Winker and dodgey defence like this.
  4. Dan

    DannyWilsonLovechild Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    15,558
    Likes Received:
    19,597
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley
    You touch on the other issue we have. We have the issue of sacking lots of people, but we also have the flipside that lots of people leave of their own choice.

    It's hard to get stability when only one is happening, just about impossible when both are. And all through the club too. Media, analysis, fitness, coaching, executive. Doesn't feel a happy floating vessel, the not so good ship, 'all's well at oakwell'.
     
    JDB and Winker like this.
  5. SuperTyke

    SuperTyke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2005
    Messages:
    55,312
    Likes Received:
    29,373
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Because they made good appointments rather than bad ones. I think it's as simple as that.

    **** analogy time. People in long term relationships tend to be happier and more successful family wise. They get married and have kids together. Why? Because they met the right person and got with them. It doesn't mean that Sarah should stay with the workshy slob of a boyfriend she's got now just for the sake of continuity even though they constantly argue.
     
  6. Che

    Chef Tyke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2005
    Messages:
    19,554
    Likes Received:
    12,573
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    West Stand Bogs
    Home Page:
    Style:
    Barnsley
    It’s one of the reasons I’d go for Duff, ironically
     
  7. Acido Tyke

    Acido Tyke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2017
    Messages:
    8,635
    Likes Received:
    4,808
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Normanton, West Yorkshire
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    We're in that difficult position though aren't we.
    If a manager/coach does well, he's going to get poached away by bigger and better clubs.
    And Micky Duff is just one example there.
    But if he and the team don't do well, we're stuck with him, and eventually it costs us more to sack him.
    We can't keep on doing this to ourselves of course. But on the other hand, I really don't know how or if we can stop it happening. :eek:
     
  8. dod

    dodgey defence Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2008
    Messages:
    5,357
    Likes Received:
    5,863
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Joiner
    Location:
    Wakefield
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    I suppose the only thing that we could do differently is to be more patient and let the manager have more than 10 months to build something.
     
  9. Acido Tyke

    Acido Tyke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2017
    Messages:
    8,635
    Likes Received:
    4,808
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Normanton, West Yorkshire
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Yeah I'm all for us trying to do that more often, but I bet its harder to do than what we think.
    And depending on our own expectations as well.
     
    dodgey defence likes this.
  10. stairfoot.red

    stairfoot.red Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Messages:
    3,517
    Likes Received:
    6,472
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Computer Engineer
    Location:
    Stairfoot
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    No we need to sack him for the recruitment **** show that he's been in charge of.
     
  11. shed131

    shed131 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2009
    Messages:
    5,754
    Likes Received:
    4,537
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    In Cudeth Nar
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    No matter who gets the gig they too would struggle with this squad apart from a couple non are good enough for the championship in my opinion. Should we get promoted
    It appears to be organised decline through incompetence from the owners year after year.
    Replacing too many with lesser standard players than the ones they get shut off
    Unfortunately we are the modern day answer to Crew Alexander under Dario Gradi who developed players and sold sold sold anything they could.
    Division 2 beckons unless something drastic alters attitudes upstairs.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2025 at 11:43 PM
  12. Acido Tyke

    Acido Tyke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2017
    Messages:
    8,635
    Likes Received:
    4,808
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Normanton, West Yorkshire
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    And when thinking about the Championship, it seems like its a thousand miles away from us at the moment. :(
     
  13. shed131

    shed131 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2009
    Messages:
    5,754
    Likes Received:
    4,537
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    In Cudeth Nar
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    I agree It Does, but we shouldn't be in this situation at all
    Nobody upstairs seems to learn from previous mistakes, to the point it can only be described as incompetence on a grand scale
     
    Acido Tyke likes this.
  14. Acido Tyke

    Acido Tyke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2017
    Messages:
    8,635
    Likes Received:
    4,808
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Normanton, West Yorkshire
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Yeah and I've also thought the same, so many times.
    A managed decline ehh lol, well that would suggest that they actually know what they are doing!. :rolleyes:
    This is mostly a poor quality league isnt it.
    With a few good ex Championship and a few better than average Lg One teams, in it.
    But we're now struggling to even stay in the top half.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2025 at 12:16 AM

Share This Page