Poll: What is your gender (serious answers only please)

Mate, in general I think you're an excellent poster on here, and I always enjoy reading what you have to say. But I think you're way wide of the mark on this one. Making a blanket assertion like this is as ludicrous as the suggestion from the other side that nefarious men will go to the lengths of identifying as trans women in order to infiltrate women-only spaces or become champion sportspeople. Both are possible in theory, but they're very far from the norm. It's this sort of dogmatism from both sides that has killed any semblance of rational debate around subject - something which is needed more than ever right now.

 

I also disagree with the removal of rights for anyone, I can’t comment on the identifying 0 cis part as I literally know nothing about the subject and hadn’t even heard of it until this thread.
I also think any form of strip searching in any form or structure must be nothing short of harrowing for many.

 

You’re probably right. It’s a hyperbolic argument in the same way that men pretending to be trans is. I still think it’s a valid concern though. My main point is that this judgement does not provide for any method of identifying a trans person which means it comes down to interpretation.

I know cis women who work in public spaces that are heavily male dominated that are often mis identified as trans because they look androgynous. They generally don’t care, but i could absolutely see a world where they would be denied access to a women’s toilet or someone would try and cause a scene as a result of this judgement emboldening them.

 

Coming to women's toilets in Scotland soon

 

Yep. This is who JK rowling and other bigots are cheering for now being forced to use women’s toilets and changing rooms.

 

Why will biological women be blocked from entering women's spaces or be searched by male officers? It's on the basis of sex, as it was always. The supreme court have just clarified the position. I think you've misinterpreted the ruling.

 

The reality is, there has never been anything actually stopping anyone—regardless of gender or sex—from entering whichever public toilets they choose, beyond social convention.

What’s more, I find it highly unlikely that the thing preventing male rapists from entering women’s toilets to commit assault is the definition of gender. That argument doesn’t really hold up under scrutiny.

I've always found it perplexing that so much of the debate seems to focus on public toilets, when the issue is clearly far more complex.

 

What’s your method for determining “biological sex”?

Give me a way of doing it that includes all cis women and no trans women.

 

Ok. He will now be in women's sport. Women's changing rooms etc.

He's not a rapist as far as I'm aware

 

I really don't get your point. As it was before the ruling ,women had to let any biological male into women's spaces because they might be trans.
Time to move on, what are you as males going to do to make your toilets, changing spaces etc more acceptable for trans women?

 

This is the exact problem with the anti trans arguments. The act of assaulting someone is illegal anyway. Nobody is on the door to toilets checking people. All these bigots want to do is inflict as much pain and embarrassment on trans people as possible and feel allowed to scream and shout when they see someone in a toilet that they don’t think looks feminine enough.

 

Well no I was making a wider point.

Please elaborate on how the high court ruling will mean Men will now enter Womens sport?
If that is indeed your point?
I'm genuinely not sure what you're getting at so I don't want to assume.

 

I don’t think men’s toilets should be adapted at all for trans women.

I do, however think male toilets should have provisions in place for trans men. I think there should be tampon dispensers, sanitary bins etc. in men’s toilets for their benefit.

 

He was born female therefore he is female in Scotland right? despite his years of hormone therapy and clear physical advantages he would have to enter female sporting competitions

 

I don't disagree, never have.
As you say it is open to abuse, as it is on the other extreme which we have also seen with male prisoners entering women's prisons.
These are not the norm though and are extreme examples, I think it's important we all remember that.
The only reason I wouldn't push for gender neutral toilets with cubicles as the norm is how disgusting most men are in use of toilet facilities.
Again the focus on the toilets in general seems like a strange thing all round to me.

 

I know cis women that present androgynously that have been mistaken as trans. That’s fine though isn’t it. They should just put on makeup and look more womanly then they’ll be fine

 

Interesting you should say that but women's (and girls) toilets are often much dirtier than mens

 

I agree, that's a side issue. However, the more it became commonplace for biological men to enter women's toilets, the more likelihood of harm.
The real issues are that women aren't being told to reframe their trauma at rape counselling because they've been forced to let men in. Or be strip searched by male officers without any recourse. And the best thing of all, no longer being forced to call your rapist she or the rape putd own as a crime commited by a woman.

 

See, I didn’t even know who it was—so my ignorance was entirely genuine!
From a sporting perspective, I’d imagine hormone therapy might disqualify him from certain competitions, though I’m no expert.

Inclusion in sport is one of the most difficult issues to navigate.
I can see reasonable arguments both for and against the inclusion of trans people in gendered categories, which is precisely what makes it such a complex matter.

There’s no single policy that can ensure fairness for everyone. But judging cases individually risks compromising equality elsewhere.