Poll: What is your gender (serious answers only please)

I would say it’s a silly example because it deliberately equates being concerned about trans inclusion with outright racism, without acknowledging the vastly different social, historical, and contextual dynamics at play. Saying “I’m not racist, I just worry about black kids in schools” is transparently racist, because it’s rooted in centuries of racial discrimination, and the underlying assumption is that black children are somehow a danger—an idea long discredited and rightly condemned.

In contrast, concerns around trans inclusion—particularly in areas like sport, prisons, or changing facilities—often stem from a lack of understanding, exposure, or fears around safeguarding. That doesn’t mean all of those concerns are valid or fair, but they don’t all automatically equate to transphobia in the same way the racism in your example clearly does.

That’s not to say people don’t use the language of “concern” to mask transphobia—they absolutely do. But if we want to move the conversation forward, we have to distinguish between bad-faith prejudice and genuine (if sometimes misguided) uncertainty. Otherwise, we risk shutting down dialogue, pushing people further into polarised camps, and missing the chance to actually educate and change minds.

 

I really don't know what you're on about, you're making no sense. Nothing is 100% because in way less than 1% of the population there can be discrepancies when going through puberty. However, my early years child was able to identify their siblings sex on a baby scan. It really isn't that difficult.

 

Maybe everyone should be required to carry around their baby scans then

 

Obviously not. But thankfully we don't have segregation between black and white people any more, at least as far as I'm aware. We do still have segregated single sex spaces, for very obvious reasons.

Certain trans issues are much more nuanced. Let's take a purely theoretical, but entirely plausible situation. I have a wife and a teenage daughter. Would I have a problem with a post-op, fully transitioned trans woman using the female changing rooms at the sports club we all go to? No, I wouldn't. Would I have a problem with a pre-op trans woman who still has all their male sexual characteristics including a penis using their changing room? Yes, I would, and I don't think it's transphobic to admit I'd not be comfortable with that.

Just to illustrate the point further, my colleague's 19 year old son, now daughter, came out as trans a couple of years ago. She hasn't had any surgery, and she's sexually attracted to females. So if we look at things from a purely biological perspective, there's no objective difference between my colleague's daughter and a straight 19 year old bloke.

Just to be clear, I'm not making this purely about changing rooms. I'm using it to illustrate the huge complexities we're dealing with.

 

I agree with this position, and I feel a majority of reasonable people would echo this sentiment. The problem is that the debate is hijacked by those with a different agenda - they’re not particularly interested in the complexity, just the virtue play and the accompanying social status it grants.

 

I still.dont get what you're on about. You're making up.problems that don't exist. But yea, a child could probably tell you if a person is male or female , just like they could tell.the emperor he was naked in the Emperors new clothes.

 

But it's not up to men to tell women who can or cannot be in their changing rooms. The law is clear on this as the SC has ruled. So again, over to you men, what are you going to do to make sure men who are trans feel safe around you?

 

Wasn't the ruling ultimately related to a case concerning the representation of women on company boards? So the case being that there needs to be a 50% split of men and women on boards. A group have challenged this to say a trans woman cannot be considered a woman in that instance.

It seems to me that this is a case being brought not on its merits but to a broader agenda, as isn't the natural conclusion to this that the law will now need to be changed to say that boards will now also need to have a representation of trans women and trans men as they are defined as a different group. Which will be at the expense of CIS women (and CIS men). So in effect women's representation will be reduced? (Although I imagine the lived experience of trans people would likely benefit company boards).

It also means that the use of CIS and trans as per this thread do now have to be used in law and society, so the argument that there is only "women" or "men" can no longer be the case.

 

You have a 50/50 biological split, men/women. So you could have all.trans theoretically and that would be fine. As would if they were all aged 20 or 60. Because sex is the key component.

 

RH - you ask a perfectly reasonable question - what are those of us whilst fully supporting the SC ruling going to do to guarantee the safety of those who have 'transitioned?' --- over to you Barnsley Reds.

(My daughters and wife happy with the SC ruling - they feel SAFER !)

 

I'm happy to help them campaign for anything that makes their lives easier but not by being pushed out of spaces women have fought hard to achieve.

 

They're not men.

 

There are so many nuances in this whole debate and it's an issue that I'm more than happy to say I know nowhere near enough to be able to answer them. But the one angle that seems difficult to me is that a trans women who has had full gender reassignment treatment should be expected to use a men's toilet. And that a woman who is advocating for women's only spaces would now feel more comfortable sharing them with a fully transitioned trans man

 

I’ve made it clear what i think should be done to help men who are trans feel comfortable. I think things like tampons and sanitary bins should be in the men’s toilets for their benefit.

 

Because they’re just bigots. They don’t care about safety of women in the slightest, it’s all about making trans people feel ashamed and embarrassed.

 

Don't forget you're debating with someome who once admitted that innocent men being unfairly caught up in false allegations of rape is a price that has to be paid in order to "redress the balance" of rape convictions and that she would be happy for her completely innocent son to be wrongly accused of rape if it meant that the rate of rape convictions went up. When gender and sex is raised they aren't rational at all

 

I think you are coming from a very well meaning place and I agree with probably the majority of what you say.
However as other and myself have pointed out this just calling everyone who doesn't fully agree with your viewpoint a bigot is not healthy or constructive.
It's also very much not the case, yes the extreme element who are bigoted exist but this is not all.
You seem intent on having a very particular argument that you appear to be searching out, so I'll excuse myself from this thread from here on out as I feel it will only become more divisive.
I wish you well.

 

I appreciate how passionate you are about this, mate, and rightly so, but what do you do about people like Isla Bryson, the rapist put initially in a female prison, or the New Jersey prisoner who was also put in a female prison and impregnanted 2 inmates? What do you think we should do about trans in women's sport? Allow it? Not trying to be facetious, bud. Genuine questions

 

I think everything should be on a case by case basis. obviously a trans woman who’s a rapist shouldn’t be in general population in a female prison. I also don’t think trans women should be in male prisons though. Especially not as a general rule as some form of collective punishment because of the actions of someone else who identifies the same way.

Sport is tricky but I don’t think there’s a one size fits all approach. It has to come down to individual cases and it’ll be different in different sports. What i don’t think is helpful though is governments and courts making stupid blanket decisions to apply to everybody because it just isnt going to work.

 

For transmen? What can you do for trans women do you think?