Christ it’s not that complicated.1. Don’t vote for Right Wing regressive parties in any kind of election. That means Labour, Conservative or Reform. 2. Get over yourselves and recognise this is not 1984. That means the idea of the ‘Working Class’ being some kind of progressive force for good is long gone. Like all classes in 2025, many who could call themselves Working Class are more than capable of showing their cultural regressive right wing credentials.
If we had proportional representation, it's unlikely that any party would get an overall majority. In such a case there is a chance that a lot of current Labour MPs would be more likely to follow what their conscience dictates and become part of a centre left coalition. The policies they are following now are clearly born out of fear of losing to Reform, rather than the result of any political conviction. Labour, LibDems and Greens between them would probably be able to freeze out Reform, in a similar way to the situation in Germany, where the dangerous, ultra right AfD has a lot of support, but plays no part in the national government.
The only logical way to approach politics is to identify your interests, vote to prioritise your interests, and to encourage others to do the same. For me that’s to prioritise the security, prosperity, and wellbeing of my family. Personally I’m not convinced that this requires importing 600,000 people a year, concreting over everything, and abandoning the few residuals of our culture and society.
erm…you’ve replied to me but I can’t help feeling your point(s) or at least the ones I understood, had a wider application. For the avoidance of doubt, my point was really about the death of the Labour Party as a party of progressive politics, and the difficulty some have in coming to terms with that fact due essentially to historical ties. Starmer’s hypocrisy around immigration is but one example of that - among many.,
No matter what Starmer does he's a dead man walking in my opinion When labour came into power it was because the electret wanted change, they were sick of the Tories and their lies Instead of delivering change he went after the most vulnerable in society and delivered and served up, exactly more of the same, as the Tories were or had done They always say first impressions count and you only get one chance to impress Personally I think he blew it. The moment he and his gang went after the pensioners first. Folk have made up their minds the majority of Labour voters detest him and are turning away from the party in droves There's no way will he turn it around, he's lost the public big time. So easy for Farage to blow smoke up folks backside. As I said in a previous post Farage is seen as a loveable rogue by the masses and the media, just like Boris was and still is by many. Regardless of what you think about Farage ( personally i thing hes a closet Nazi amongst other things and i wouldnt pee on him if he was on fire) but compared to Starmer Farage beats the mono tone Starmer in any personality contest unfortunately.
'Illegal Migration' is such a tiny, miniscule facet of every day life - Its amazing how important its perceived to be. Its disappointing that Starmer has gone down this route to try to retain/attract the support of the electorate who respond to these policies. The focus that racists like Farage, Tice and Anderson have put on this Small Boats Crusade is a brilliant way of distracting everyone from their real intentions.
Over four years to go. An awful lot could happen in that time. I remember the teething troubles when Tony Blair first got in. Yet he served for 10 years and Labour governed for 13. Four years is a long time for Farage to keep the rant up. You can get 20/1 in places for Boris Johnson to be the next prime minister.
It's great increasing wages like labour have done by increasing the base rate of pay, but when rent,gas electric, council tax, food, fuel are all going up its in one hand out of the other. More taxes on small businesses hasn't helped either. Yes the boats may be only a small % but it costs the tax payer billions each year and again something starmer said he was going to stop in his election run up. Stop the trafficking and stop the boats were his words he's done neither. He's backtracked so many times in 11 months it's unbelievable last week martin lewis and others said he was considering a partial U turn on the winter fuel https://x.com/MartinSLewis/status/1919670176875753724
The tories couldn’t stop the boats and reform don’t have a magic wand to do it either.Don’t believe the hype
In the grand scheme of it you’re right but on the financials of it it isn’t if you look at the supposed savings made by decisions on farmers, pensioners WFA, abolishment of VAT on private school fees and DLA reforms it’s pretty much double all of these combined. I’m all for people coming into the country to fill vacancies that we can’t because we don’t have the people with the skills, but unfortunately quite a few see us as a soft touch which is why in the last 5 years net immigration is 5 times what it was. On the flip side British born and bred folk see us as a soft touch aswell - and if they’re looking at earning minimum wage and only being £30 a week worse off on benefits , then unfortunately for some the degree of self worth goes out of the window. this leaves middle earning citizens with a big fat cross on their backs as your vote isn’t enough to topple a government , so you have to suck it up!
All people see in the categories mentioned is that they’re getting cuts to income and they’re in the main English born and bred, yet non illegal immigrants are getting looked after. have a look at Denmarks stance on the issue of illegal immigrants and the results ! I think where it gets clouded is immigration and illegal immigration.
When I heard the results of the elections the other week, I was hoping that Labour would turn to the left and distance themselves from Fartage and Badenough but my hopes have been dashed and it looks like Labour will transition from Tory-lite to Tory-heavy and just play into their hands. The original Keir (Hardie) will be turning in his grave.
I love how most of the Labour voters are saying that Starmer's comments on immigration are the final straw. The welfare cuts targeted at disabled people regardless of whether they are in employment or not should have been more than enough. Baffling really that even a slighty harsher stance on immigration is more offensive to some of you than literally sentencing thousands of disabled people to further mental health problems/suicide/death. I thought all parties were the same but in the space of 6 months, Starmer has done harm to the most vulnerable in society than Tories did in 14 years.
the problem with immigration isnt immigrants, it's a lack of taxing extrem wealth to keep pace with If you think that getting rid of immigrants is going to bring you and yours more prosperity then I've a bridge to sell you because any party not prioritising a redistribution of wealth is just engaging in an act of misdirection.
I was criticising tribalism, voting the same way you always have or are expected to, and allowing parties to take you for granted - using you for their interests rather than delivering in yours. Your post prompted the response, hence the quote.
Belief in one doesn’t mean you can’t believe in the other. There’s an obvious issue with the very wealthy hoarding much of the assets and opportunities - certain individuals or certain parts of the country living very different lives from others, and a lack of hope for many. There’s also an issue with taxing that effectively without hiding of wealth or capital flight. For me I’d close several of the loopholes on inheritance tax, ban or significantly limit multiple home ownership, and deny access to public services for non-British tax payers.
I cringed hearing his press conference. The problem is trying to pander to the right enables them to push further right. Next they’ll want ‘foreigners’ deported rather than hindered. And what they’ll want after that doesn’t bear thinking about. See opportunist Jenricks Sky interview where he gladly stepped into explicit racism territory citing Bradford, Luton and Dagenham for being ‘non white’… yet incredibly, Sky hardly touched on it in their usual interview post analysis. We’ve got to start calling out where racism and fascism is burgeoning. Politics shouldn’t be trying to pander and grab a few sound bites. Lead, explain, convince that decency can work and that someone with skin that isn’t white is not your enemy. Someone born in a different place isn’t a an automatic danger. But as we’ve seen through this site, bigotry, xenophobia and racism exist in the minds of the ignorant who have been indoctrinated for decades by a right wing media that has no interest in their lives, other than to extract their vote for their cronies.
Just regarding the figures and increases in net migration over the past 5 years. I wonder what could have happened around 5 years ago that has seen those figures increase? What made it more difficult for Brits to live and work in Europe? What closed the door to the processing and quicker administration of migration in Europe and therefore increased illegal immigration and saw The Boats' numbers rise? Is there something we voted for that might have caused all this?
Its almost like we should tax the mega rich, the billionaires and the huge corporations isn't it? And we aren't a soft touch. There are figures that are readily available that prove that we a) don't take as many migrants/asylum seekers as other European Nations and b) don't pay as many benefits. Migrants and asylum seekers aren't the problem. It's that simple.
