I don't think all Reform voters are racist. But I would say they are either racist or stupid. At least stupid in terms of their understanding of politics and how things work.
He gambled that the referendum would be enough to stop the Tories losing support to Farage and that remain would win. And here we are - out of the EU and Farage stronger than ever. Nice one Dave.
There's a lot of hyperbole. Recognising that there's a need to plan and control immigration, ensure it works correctly, and therefore offers the country as much benefit as it can without creating large or unresolved problems isn't as repugnant as the extremists and name callers would make out. You can have an issue with the failings of our immigration policies and the social challenges that result without being racist, extremist, anti-immigrant, or having prejudice against those from other countries. For many it's not skin colour; it's numbers, processes, and experience.
I agree, you can be concerned about migration when net migration levels are at near on a million per year. Which to put in perspective is more than a large u.k city(leeds city and district is around 800k). It doesn't make you a racist knuckle dragger if you have questions as to how it's sustainable and the infrastructure that needs to be built to keep up with this.
I’ve never met them of course so I’ve no idea if they are racist. But as someone else asked - if they aren’t, what Reform policies attracted them?
I don't disagree...but you said " So Reform have the majority of the councillors but no actual sway." I've read similar comments on social media, but it's not actually correct, Reform can now stop anything the Mayor and Cabinet want to do. Ros Jones has gone from a position of absolute power with a full cabinet of only Labour Members, to a position where she is trying to make the Cabinet cross party in order to get things done...(it's a shame she didn't adopt the cross party approach in the last 13 years tbh...all the paid positions went to Labour colleagues). It would have been better for the Council to be in NoC, or perhaps a very thin majority...but as it stands Reform can stop anything at the Cttee stage, and they also have more than a 2/3rds majority, so can amend the Council Constitution to try and get rid of the current Executive decision making process.
They have more than two thirds of the councillors yes, but the structure was completely remodelled when Donny adopted the elected mayor system - at the will of the people who voted to do so - they don’t actually have the power to amend the constitution nor stop any or many key decisions - but do have the numbers to be loud enough to try and force these things to be discussed. They have most councillors - but can’t change the decision of the people to elect Ros Jones as mayor; her power under the updated constitution trumps that of the biggest party on the council. She hasn’t appointed anyone cross party in her official cabinet - which will still ultimately finalise decisions. What she has done is also create an ‘executive group’ - of a few of the Reform councillors and a couple of Tories. They will apparently openly discuss issues before they go to cabinet - but it is still the cabinet - made up now if only four Labour councillors and Jones - who will rubber stamp pretty much everything; 95% of all decisions has been bandied about as the figure they will have final say on. So yeah she hasn’t necessarily got quite the absolute power she had; she is having to articulate things cross-party (I put it as saving face before but more accurate to say she has to be seen to be doing the right thing) - ultimately Reform have the majority of councillors but essentially only really have the role of being the main opposition to a party in power without a majority. Not ideal. They can spoil a bit - I’m sure they will - though their role will, or should, mainly be about deciding how to use available resource within their individual wards. The two women who were the councillors for the ward I live in have been excellent, have introduced initiatives for the elderly at the two community centres in the ward, kept the library open and got free literacy classes for kids and adults, always respond to stuff about roads, paths, even trees over growing - normal stuff. Both lost their seat. They both did a fair bit of campaigning too - from what I’ve read they were all welcomed by most as being good councillors but broadly told they wouldn’t be voted for due to the decisions of central government. I have absolutely no idea who the reform candidates are over and above a couple of paragraphs sent out by them/for them. They did nothing. Not one bit of shoe leather worn. They didn’t need to in most cases. But it doesn’t bode well that they showed little effort to be elected - hopefully it doesn’t reflect on their work ethic when it comes to representing the ward. It’s all well and good being shouty about what you don’t like - but they actually have a job to do now. I fear they won’t do it particularly well.
" They will apparently openly discuss issues before they go to cabinet - but it is still the cabinet - made up now if only four Labour councillors and Jones - who will rubber stamp pretty much everything; 95% of all decisions has been bandied about as the figure they will have final say on." Sorry but that's not the case, they can rubber stamp anything they wish, Reform can then 'Call it in' for approval by the Overview and Scrutiny Ctee.. of which they have overwhelming control. They can then reject the decision . The executive is thus paralysed if Reform wish it. We might have to agree to differ but as I understand it 2/3rds is the magic number for changing the Constitution, it would though go to referendum, in the current climate who knows what the vote would be.
Yeah that’s what I meant - they can’t change the constitution themselves - but could force the issue on another referendum potentially with the numbers they have. Whatever the particulars of their power, and you may be right in your interpretation over mine - it matters little as it will be a shitshow regardless. And not one my fellow Doncaster residents ought to be relishing.
Well my Mum probably largely went along with my Dad as she has very little interest in politics. My Dad broadly speaking has massive worries about Islamic terrorism and doesn't believe any effort is being made to address to it. This is what drives my post further up the thread if you have read it? I have given him the more balanced reasoning which he has accepted parts of. He also knows that reform isn't the answer but he saw it as a protest vote. When Barnsley has its next local elections he will vote which ever party he believes has the beat chance of beating his Labour councillor. Bur he used to work with her and he depsies her with a passion so that's probably a separate issue
Fair enough - I understand his position, especially the anti-Labour stance. I still can't get my head round why anyone would vote Reform though.
Having watched Starmer on PMQ's. Today. Imo He put Badenoch. Fartage in the shade. (All they could do was snigger to hide their embarrassment, having done little or no research. Especially Bardenoch) Ill give Ed Davey his due. He spoke in a way that was not confrontational and got his message over. You or i may not agree on everything Starmer has done. But probably the most controlled pm in many a year. Fartage btw. the only leader. (Unless I missed it) Not to offer up his thoughts on the arson attack. No surprise there if so.
Sadly that's prevalent in most society's. I think most of us agree. Trump. Boris. Fartage get by on their, I hate to say magnetism. Some of the electorate get drawn in. I remember folk saying Starmer is boring. Aye' alright let's vote for the jolly fekker. He makes me smile. Wish someone would wipe that awful grin off fartages face.
Just on the pretext of this thread. In 1968, the immigration figure was 222,000, with a net outflow of 56,000. Last year, the immigration figure was 1,207,000 (728,000 net). Any comparison between Powell's 1968 speech and Starmer's of this week would be foolish if not set against that context.
I do not disagree, but I do think reason and debate is the way to change people's mind. Yes you'll never get a certain percentage of them but calling them all racist (I know you didn't) will not work.
Or fear what they don't understand? If everyone is lying to you then you may fall for the bigger liars. Life is never one size fits all.
