Starmer knew net migration was too high and a big concern for working people when he took over. It's took until now for him to come out with this speech because he is scared of reform. I have no confidence in him getting net migration down. Talks the talk like they all do.
I do take this point, but it's been 10 years now. Reasoned debate didn't work with the initial Brexit Vote, didn't work when Johnson was elected on the back of Brexit in 2019 and its not working now as people are still voting for the same idiotic policies.
It was 745k in 2022 and 906k year ending 2023. So unless he's been under a rock before he took over he should know this and know the working people's concerns the torys failed to get it under control so is he.
It's definitely hard, the avalanche of lies on social media is the biggest challenge in the modern world. The real threat facing humans in this century is ironically population collapse and when that kicks in immigration will be something nations fight over leading.
I'm not so sure net migration is the main issue tbh. Most of those will be students. I don't think most reform voters or many others tbf. recognise the fact its different from immigration. (Settle here) and confuse the issue. In 22/23 758,855 overseas students were studying at UK universities. This number included 95,505 students from the EU and 663,355 from outside the EU. This was a record high, representing 26% of the total student population. Illegals and asylum seekers coming in via boats etc are are higher. Deportations give no specific figures. But labour are trying to speed up the process. Time will tell.
I'm sick of "reasoned debate" with racists who call people Paki's behind their backs I'm sick of reasoned debate with hypocrites who are criticise "illegals" coming over here living off benefits while living in their fully funded council house with their parents who haven't worked a day in their life but somehow always find money for drugs every night I'm sick of reasoned debate with the idiots who share hate they find on Facebook because they're too thick to realise it's full of lies. I'm sick of reasoned debate with selfish people who do not care about anyone else but themselves and demonise immigrants because they're scared that it will mean they lose some of their vast sums of money to make sure others have a decent quality of life. Reasoned debate doesn't change anyone's mind. All it does is legitimises their racist views and gives them a platform
Go away with your 'working people' as if everyone who works thinks the same. Would doubt most of those at Manvers had a job
On a one on one level you're absolutely right. However in a public forum you may not change the mind of the person you are debating but coups impact all those listening.
Starmer became leader in 2020. The net immigration figure for 2019 was 184,000. The net immigration figure for 2024 was 728,000. In other words, the problem (if it is viewed as such) had increased by almost fourfold. I would worry about any leader/PM who didn't respond differently to such a change of circumstances.
I doubt the people in Leeds did who rioted before had jobs either. The manners riots have no relevance to a discussion about net migration and how it's now at numbers that's the population of Leeds each year. But I get it if anyone has concerns about migration there automatically a racist knuckledragger.
I don’t find it an issue personally. I think migration brings more positives than it does negatives. After all, my great grandparents migrated here. So it’d be a strange argument. Similar (but not as much) to Badenoch suggesting it’s a bad thing after benefiting herself. I don’t think immigrants are to blame for the cost of living crisis. They aren’t at fault for the obscene price of public services, or utilities etc. And the reasons folk don’t like Sir Keir (the ones I know, at least) all relate to his policies, decisions made since he became PM. I appreciate your contributions to this thread @orsenkaht because I think every discussion could do with differing viewpoints. And I know you’ve been a huge supporter of Keir’s Labour. But he/they are handing the next GE to Reform on a plate. What a legacy that will be.
Nige and Boris and the other racists got other racists to vote Leave. Brexit has crippled this country. Yet idiots keep voting for him. It’s like watching someone burgle your house and patting them on the back as they walk out with your laptop, jewelry and plasma tv.
I actually agree with most of that. Same here, being of Irish descent. I think the failing with immigration has been that we haven't better used the opportunity to accept and skill up migrants, so that the economy as a whole grows. I don't think Starmer/Labour are perfect. I just think that of any of the current contenders, I'd sooner have him and Labour in charge. I think Starmer and his government are genuinely trying to take difficult, long-term decisions. I fear that they won't be thanked for it, because I think it will take longer than one term for things to turn around. I hope I'm wrong. I fear that a Reform victory is awful, but inevitable, because people are still naive enough to think there are easy answers to our current problems. They will be swiftly disappointed.
Scary times. I do accept that he’s in charge at a very difficult point and it’s not easy. But some of his messaging is right out of the mouths of the people I detest.
Of course, Johnson increased immigration significantly in 2021-2 (the "Boriswave") to hide the economic impact of Brexit. Without those extra immigrants, the economy would have shrunk and had people questioning whether Brexit was a mistake. International students represent roughly 10% of all British exports, bring £42bn/year into the economy and support ~100,000 jobs. But we need to stop them coming here...
Can confirm the ones that rocked up to mental health services didn’t have jobs and hadn’t had jobs for some time. Apparently poor mental health turns you into a racist arsonist.
