Doctors strike

Is it possible for a trades union to be right wing?
The new Labour government gave junior doctors a massive 22% pay increase last year and an offer of 5.4% this time round.
The union argues that in real terms the wages of their members have been driven down, and now they want the value of the wages reinstating to previous levels.
My question is this: During the years of tory austerity which caused the downward direction in the value of junior doctors wages, where were the BMA? What were they doing to stop the demise? And why the Billy Bigbollocks stance now? Standing by and (comparatively) quietly watching their members salary slowly depreciate for 14 years could be seen by the cynics among us as tacit support for the tory governments attempt to slowly destroy the NHS.
My second question is: Am I over thinking it all?

 

There is some substance to their argument, and everyone agrees we need more doctors. But they received a very good above-inflation pay rise last year and they do seem to be pressing their arguments oblivious to the wider economic position. Which group of workers hasn't suffered financially since 2008?

 

It’s a difficult one where both sides of argument are really valid. However, I was listening to an interview a few days ago with a TU official ( I think) and was really surprised to learn that a Junior Doctor is on about £24 per hour. That really is poor considering the education, training, dedication and stress levels they must be under.

 

The large pay rise they were given last year has emboldened them. Just like Labour MPs who are voting against their own Government I suspect the BMA realise the Government is weak. As to their wider motives, lets not forget that GP surgeries are private businesses doing work on behalf of the NHS. That has been the case since the NHS was formed when 84% of GPs voted against the formation of the NHS. Dental Surgeries are run on the same principle as GP surgeries. As for doctors in hospitals, Bevan allowed Consultants to continue their lucrative private work alongside their NHS work, in effect they were part-time in the NHS. In effect, GPs and Dentists were contractors and Consultants part-time NHS. People outside of this were salaried employees of the NHS. Junior doctors are in a peculiar position since, I presume if they reach consultant status they can opt to go part-time so they aren't necessarily totally signed up emotionally to the NHS.

Are they destroying the NHS? I would argue that ever since its creation the NHS has never been a unified body with conflict built in to its structure because of the way that the Nationalisation had to go through. Was Bevan right to create a flawed NHS rather than let the previous system continue where poor people couldn't access the same health care as wealthier individuals? I would argue yes. Perhaps we do need different funding models if Health Secretaries aren't prepared to confront those whose vested interests act against the NHS being a single body.

 

Its not just the the economic situation though, what about the mental and physical pain and strain they are putting their patients and worried people waiting for assessments through?
Its not like not getting your bins emptied is it?
They got a very good rise last year and to come back for another so soon is IMHO taking the piss , can't see them getting the same sympathy this time

 

If they don't like the wages, go do something else. They've known for long enough now the current going rates.

 

My best m8 is an Accountant for NHS, sent this to him and this was his reply:

“Some are already on £40 an hour all depends on what year you are on. Starting wage is about £18 an hour without weekends or nights which doesn’t happen”.

£18 sounds shocking to me even if it’s topped up with shifts allowance etc but does raise question what is a fair rate for a Jr Dr.

 

Yeah, get life-savers out of our lives.

 

Maybe it's because they know the current government will probably fold to their demands, whereas they knew the Tories wouldn't even budge an inch. Like mates rates

 

I'll use this example because I did some work on the policy changes several years ago under the Windsor agreement and have done other work around this subject.

Police pay was frozen during the initial financial crisis. I don't mean by way of inflation related payrises, I mean they were prevented from earning more and increasing on any pays scales. They also had their pension contributions increased whilst getting less in return.
Then for over 14 years they had below inflation pay increases, which in real terms equates to a pay cut, despite the 'independent pay review board' recommending in line with inflation. This happened at a time when MPs voted to increase their own pensions and pay.

When Covid hit, many people were payed to stay home through the Furlough Scheme. Police and other key workers went to work daily. They were spat at, often threatened by people who claimed to have Covid whilst doing so. They received a 0.5% increase above inflation.

There have been yearsof recruitment freezes, which saw an approx 25,000 less police officers on the street. This led to a decimation of Neighbourhood Policing, or the old school Bobby on the Beat, which was only reintroduced a few years backwotg the promise of greater police numbers (we're nowhere near the figure we were 14 years ago, despite a massive population increase of over 3.5 million.

A change in starting pay to £19k, working full time and an expectation that they compete a full time degree alongside completing their probation.

The current police workforce has something like 50% within their first 3 years of service. The burdon on the established work force to both train and also maintain the service (granted sub par, but utilised as a firefighting response rather than prevention due to capacity) is ridiculous. Many are breaking mentally. Having done research alongside officers, I know that many views them to be lazy. I guarantee that their effectiveness is not down to a lack ofindividual want.

Up until last year, a typical police officer was 16k a year worse off than they would have been without those cuts. They also have a workload about 4x higher than 10 years ago.

Granted the police don't have the right to strike, but they could effectively challenge that (and likely win) as for example PSNI did.

Yet, there are no calls from within the Police Service to seek recompense for the years of austerity forced upon them (other than a legal challenge to a pension review based on age descrimination).

I can understand seeking better wages going forwards, but back pay will open the door to challenges across every service and could effectively bankrupt the country.

 

Junior doctors are not poorly paid, they just work too many hours. This is because they will be on call for one or two nights, on top of their day shifts. When on call they could conceivably be asleep for 6 of the hours. Also, they don’t remain junior doctors for long, so within a few years they are making a fortune and as they progress and start adding private work on top of their NHS roles they really are raking it in.

So when they say they get less than the cleaners they are only telling half the story. Dividing their salary by the total amount of hours they are working/on call and yes, it could be lower than the cleaner’s hourly rate. But not one doctor, who says they get paid less than the cleaner would swap their monthly pay for the cleaner’s apparently higher monthly pay, because when multiplied by their working/on call hours they actually get paid far more than the cleaner. If they insist they get paid less than the cleaner, ask them to show their monthly payslip at the side of the cleaner’s.

You should also ask them to come back in 5 years’ time and ask them to compare their pay to the cleaner’s, to see if the cleaner’s salary has gone up as steeply as theirs!

So I am not particularly sympathetic towards junior doctors, particularly in light of their recent whopping pay rise, but also when you compare their pay rise with nurses’ pay increase last year, which was an insult.

I do, however, have sympathy with the amount of hours they work. I think the public would be petrified if they learned that the doctor dealing with them could conceivably have been working 20 hours without sleep, which does happen. It’s dangerous having them have to do on call on top of their daytime hours. Money for old rope if they get to sleep all night, dangerous if they don’t, which is usually the case these days.

 

All of this post applies to a number of industries including the one I currently work in. The solution would be that if you don’t like your pay or conditions, get a different job. I would imagine the mass exodus just wouldn’t happen and the ones that did leave would just be replaced. There are enough students not getting on the relevant courses in these areas at the moment due to limited numbers to suggest the sky wouldn’t fall in.

 

When you sign up to a job you accept the Current pay and conditions. We’re supposed to live in a democracy where you can stand up and fight about these pay and conditions being basically steadily Eroded. I’m not just on about Junior Drs here.

 

The BMA fought against the founding of the NHS. It's in their interest for it to go their members would become very rich very quickly with a private health care system

 

This is correct.

 

If they all "go somewhere else" who's going to tend to your needs if you fall ill?

 

‘Immigrants’

 

I'm a payroll manager of 26 years, between 1999 and 2008 l worked for Mid Yorks Hosp NHS Trust paying the doctors. Since then I've worked in various sectors ranging from Education to construction.

You would be shocked at the professions that are paid more than a doctor.

 

Police are massively understaffed in all areas, even treading water in terms of numbers just leads to more people leaving because they are overworked. Under the Tory’s they lost thousands and trying to replace them now with new recruits isn’t the same, people take time to be good at a job. PCs still on probation are doing acting Sergeant roles on night shift for the whole of Leeds, for example, where they are supposed to make decisions and direct response for major crimes.

 

This table shows Resident (Junior) doctors' pay.



As you can see it ranges from £36k to £70 per annum depending on how long they've been doing it. £36 pa equates to something like £20 per hour for 40 hour week. The claim of £24 per hour really only applies to those in year 1 and 2. with year 3 at £28 per hour. However, I agree that this pay is not enough when compared to the median wage of £37k pa, I would have expected even a year 1 Resident Doctor to be on higher than the median. On the other side of the argument is that the Government took action last year in giving them a large pay rise and the rise this year under that deal is still above inflation. It's hard to have much sympathy with them when the majority of people in the public sector are not seeing above-inflation rises.