Online Safety Act

Anybody that wants to “regulate” the internet has no idea how the internet works.

The fact is, it’s completely impossible to regulate it in any meaningful way without destroying it entirely.

The only things our government have any control over is companies registered in the UK. Thats it. The vast majority of sites you’ll visit are not hosted in the UK ot by companies based in the UK. So the only way to actually regulate it is by forcing ISPs to block access or hope the websites fall for the bluff. But for a website getting around an ISP ban (which won’t actually do anything anyway for most people) is so insanely trivial.

The reason i’m against this legislation is that the only way it can be enforced is shutting down massive parts of the internet which will just absolutely destroy the country. Everything else is just censorship under the guise of “protecting children” who will 100% get around it anyway with a dodgy free VPN, which by the way will never be able to be banned for kids because a new free one will come up literally every 5 minutes.

 

Are adults really turning to the dark web because they’re too embarrassed or scared to provide their ID for p0rn or because people on Reddit are using the wrong tag for spoilers? It’s not even an entirely new concept, the big internet providers have asked people to call up to unlock adult content anyway by putting a temporary charge on their card. If it’s a choice between adults not accessing those things because they don’t want to provide it, or kids being able to see absolutely everything the internet has to offer then sorry adults, you’re going to have to read the book to find out what happens if you want to remain anonymous. I’ve not seen a single thing that an adult now can’t do that is worth having a kid have access to something absolutely inappropriate for.

 

I guarantee that no kid who wants to see any porn has been stopped from doing so. They’ve barely been impacted.

What has happened is adults have had to give their details out to more companies, many of which are oversees.

And we’re now at a point where the government are going to give in again to the pearl clutching and try to regulate VPN usage “for kids”. When that fails, which it will, they’ll then try and restrict the internet even more.

It won’t work because the UK government does not have the power to regulate websites hosted outside of the UK so the only thing that they’ll be able to do is block access to every site outside of the UK like what China does. That doesn’t work either though because VPNs will still work.

They’ll be back on trying to “ban encryption” soon. I’m sure that’s also definitely to protect kids. Surely.

 

Much of the above is just a negative acceptance of the current situation...the big companies can manage to block the sites that are the issue...if they want to do so.

 

What do you mean by “big companies”? ISPs?

There’s no way for any UK company to block access to websites entirely. They can block access to an IP range that they know is used by a company, but companies change their IP addresses all the time. Especially these days.

There’s also new porn websites being created every few seconds. Good luck finding them all and blocking access.

 

There is a lot of words there but can you clarify ehat qualifies you to tell us "how the internet works". Or that you understand it so well that you can guarantee nothing works and that the internet has to be shut down. And whats the evidence "guaranteeing" no young people who want to see porn are still seeing it? Also what the f**k does porn have to do with the actual harmful content me and Jamdrop have been repeatedly talking about on here. How does age verification not stop algorithms and AI shoving self harm, suicide and terrorist propaganda doen the throat of young people? Your inability to see past porn is getting a bit weird tbh.


Also..

Brasil banned Twitter for not removing harmful and misleading content. Twitter resisted but had to comply eventually relenting to the demands but not before it lost significant users to other platforms (that actually moderate content). Twitter is not based in Brasil. Even stubborn old Musk had to give up against a country

 

Again far too negative...forget the porn for now there's big money to made so it will be a permanent challenge, but these sites that promote and encourage suicide and self harm are not in that bracket...anyone promoting ie Paedophilia would be taken down in a flash, the same action could be taken in the case of those sites.

 

Please i’ve barely mentioned porn other than that’s what most people are talking about. I wouldn’t give a **** if it was just porn sites that are banned. I haven’t watched porn in a very long time, i’m very happily married and would easily be able to get around any blocks if i really wanted to.

My problem as i’ve repeatedly said is that regulating the internet is completely impossible without either completely destroying it or doing it so weakly that it doesn’t actually have any impact. Sure they can block certain sites. If they want to completely block facebook and twitter frankly i wouldn’t care in the slightest. The issue is they’re banning “adult content” which is an extremely loosely defined term and completely unenforceable.
They’re next going to start trying to regulate VPNs next and then they’ll move back on to encryption which they’ve been trying to regulate for over a decade. I’ve personally given talks to rooms of politicians about how ridiculous this concept is. Encryption is not something that can be regulated in any way shape or form. It’s absolutely ridiculous but yet they keep talking about it. All will be done under the guise of protecting kids from the big bad internet.

Again, the UK government has no power over sites hosted outside of the UK by non UK providers. They can cut off the access to single sites quite easily but again that’s not the issue here. What they can’t do is cut off access to categories of site. It’s just impossible.

 

For the most part the sites you mention that do stuff like that are taken down because that content is illegal everywhere. They’re taken down because there’s nowhere they can host them legally and the owners will go to prison if they try.

The UK has no power to shut down a website hosted in another country. We can try and block access to it, but that is a longer process and usually not permanent.

 

Again you fail to address the issues we are concerned about. They are not banning adult content. They are moderating the age people can access it. The only things being banned are sites with illegal content, as they always have been - which is online regulation btw

I'll ask again: What exactly qualifies you to lecture us on internet moderation?

There is no why in anything you say. Just a wall of negativity. Age verification IS regulation..age verification for legal use of VPNs IS regulation. Putting laws on social media companies that they have to follow in order to legally be allowed to remain online in a country IS regulation.. Social media sharing harmful content with little to no moderation is a huge part of the issue.

If there is sensitive/harmful content on a website, almost no one sees it unless it is promoted and shared. It can and should be regulated by national and international law. I think you are the one who is blind to the fact that, while difficult and challenging, regulation of the internet absolutely is possible. There will be challenges, there will be disgruntled people. But in the end overcoming these challenges is vital for society to move forwards.

 

As for my qualifications, i have a masters degree in systems development and have almost 25 years experience making software and websites. I’ve worked on websites with millions of users daily, i’ve worked on websites hosted in the UK and in other countries, I’ve been employed by US companies and i’ve made and hosted websites personally that have seen decent traffic.

Never once have i looked up the laws of every country in the world to make sure i’m following all their laws, because i’m under no requirement to.

Yes you’re right what they’ve done IS regulation, but it’s not effective regulation. It has had negligible impact on what they say they’re trying to achieve. It has had a decent impact on political censorship, but i’m sure that’s definitely an unintended side effect.

What is impossible is any sort of effective regulation. The government have already been told to **** off by 4chan, who are one of the worst offenders for the content the government say they’re trying to block. The government have fined them and they’ve just said no. There’s literally nothing the UK government can do about that other than asking ISPs to block access which will only work while it stays on the same IP range. Now i have no idea what their servers look like but i know when i’ve made sites in the past IPs can change on an hourly basis.

 

Thank you for finally answering. Instead of constantly whining and saying things dont work could you actually make some productive suggestions on how we actually regulate internet content as it clearly needs to happen. I do not believe for one second its that impossible. Hard maybe but not impossible.

And not your suggestion of just educating parents, which is one of the dumbest suggestions I've ever heard. The internet the wild west and, as its stand, there is no way any kids should be allowed anywhere near it.

We don't need people like you moaning about it anymore. You don't like it. We go it... If you really are so knowledgeable then help us protect our kids rather than constantly running us down. The online safety act might be s**t but at least they are offering us something, which is far more productive than your constant whining.

 

But putting in the regulation is like banning plastic straws…. Many will put up with them, but the overall effect will be minimal.

 

Sorry i really don't understand the analogy. The effect of McDonalds not handing out plastic straws does almost nothing? Based on what evidence?

Surely the point is it does do some good right? As opposed to continuing to mass produce plastic straws because the fishing industry produces far more plastic waste? The fact is that its still plastic waste being regulated. Its just that we need to do more. Just like internet regulation.

 

Again, the only way to regulate it is close the UK off from the internet of the rest of the world.

That’s not me exaggerating, that’s just the reality of how the internet works. As soon as the traffic leaves the UK the UK government no longer has any control.

The internet is designed to be decentralised. That’s the way it works. Traffic passes between routers worldwide to get to its destination. It’s purposely designed to not be able to be controlled in the way the government are trying to. The only solution is to cut off the UK.

 

So the answer is international laws. Hard but not impossible. Illegal content is removed

But basically you are saying at this point the online safety act is all we have. In which case I support it even more in its current form. Thanks for confirming.

 

Yes, the law that does nothing to prevent kids accessing inappropriate content but censors political posts, makes the internet worse for UK citizens and pushes people towards illegal porn is the only option. Great Stuff.

Do you really think international laws for this are possible? It’s never happening in a million years.

 

They changed the straws, but all the tops of the drinks are all still plastic…. And if you really want a plastic straw, you can still get one with minor inconvenience or from a less reputable vendor… it’s not a difficult analogy.

 

Having read the to and fro between you and Barnsley Reds on the subject, as an outsider reading it back I can confirm one person comes across as whining and moaning, the other someone who’s clearly qualified in the field and pointing out that the pitfalls make what the act is stated to be trying to achieve impossible from a practical and legal point of view.

I’ll let you reflect and see if you can suss which is which…

The stated intentions (which I’m dubious about, but still) are honourable to a point. It’s a bit big brother, and state censorship - but I can see the appeal; vulnerable people including kids need protection.

But it won’t work - it can’t work - and the fact that it isnt that difficult to work that out, coupled with the fact that government advisors will know that for a fact as well, leads me to conclude that the protection of vulnerable people, including minors, isn’t what this is being rolled out for at all. They know it’s an Elastoplast on a gunshot wound. Arguably not even that. So what is it for? What will it lead to?

I have kids, youngest is ten. It is bloody difficult to control everything she sees even being as attentive and careful as we are. Some parents don’t bother at all. I get that, so I get why this appears attractive to some, most, all even.

But the fact you or I believe something is justified and required doesn’t make it practical or possible.

 

Its still better than what you are offering - no regulations but some training for parents and a sprinkling of hopes and prayers.

(Theres that porn word again. Weird)

All you do is moan. This needs sorting. It ain't being rescinded now, so offer better solutions or continue whinging. As much as you are so blinkered that you can't see it, it does a lot to protect kids. Just nowhere near enough, and not significantly older and tech savvy kids. But young vulnerable kids absolutely are better protected.

Again it doesn't censor political posts. It has the potential to put those deemed harmful behind age verification. There is a distinct difference which you keep ignoring.