If we're doing politics...

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Atac, Dec 16, 2019.

  1. Ata

    Atac Well-Known Member

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    There was only going to be one winner in the election. The Lib Dem's policy of ignoring the majority of the country by standing on a remain ticket was suicidal. Labour's offering was incoherent and so utopian as to be incredible.
    The tories didn't win the election, it was handed them on a silver platter.
    We're now in a state where powerful vested interests can hand down just enough to keep the masses happy without having to really change anything. The most interesting element now will be watching to see if Boris can get a deal which keeps the Union together.

    So much of interest coming - two parties that need to re-invent themselves very quickly and a Union that has a big decision to make.

    Even with Boris blunders along the way, where's the opposition to profit from them?
     
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  2. Don

    Donny-Red Well-Known Member

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    I agree with all that except the other 2 party’s needing to reinvent themselves.

    by the time we have another election; we’re out of the EU and the political landscape will be unrecognisable.

    the opposition party’s need to keep their powder dry, challenge the govt where they have to, but they need to let this play out.
     
  3. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

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    I reckon that nothing short of criminal charges would lead to Boris's downfall. He has already laughed off any whiff of scandal and will do so again, so far as I can see. It seems that people like Trump and Johnson just make their own narrative in the modern political landscape. Even Theresa May rode out issues which would have formerly led to resignation (heavy parliamentary defeats, being found in contempt). So the old rules look out of the window. As for change, Labour had to work their way through Neil Kinnock and John Smith before they lit upon a leader with appeal to the middle ground sufficient to win three landslide general election victories. Long-Bailey, Rayner or Burgon (God help us!) will not constitute a sufficiently appealing image to win over those with centrist views, which must happen for Labour ever to regain power. Moreover, Brexit is sorted, because I reckon once we are out on 31 January, most folk won't give two hoots about the shape of the future trade deal. So the Tories will have ended the threat of yet again impaling themselves over the issue of Europe. I don't think the Lib Dems have a purpose, so hard to see them not just dying off. The only hope is that there is some substance to Boris's 'one nation' claims - although I'm not holding my breath.
     
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  4. bright red

    bright red Well-Known Member

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    The thing today that’s really making my blood boil is the casual acceptance of all of the media of Johnson’s latest morally bankrupt stance. The idea that he’s going to plough money into the areas in the North and Midlands that have voted Tory. No questioning from anyone that maybe a government ought to put money in where it’s needed. Also an admission that the Torys have ignored the North for ten years. Notice absolutely no mention of Scotland or Northern Ireland cos they haven’t doffed their caps like good little proles. You are either with us or against - Thatcher. So much for One ******* Nation Conservatism.
     
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  5. bright red

    bright red Well-Known Member

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    Don’t know why we needed a new thread but just in case, I’ve posted this twice! Soz.
     
  6. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

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    Well, DUP no longer required, and they've not much to gain in Scotland either! I bet they'll try to blame any deterioration in the Scottish economy or public services on the SNP/Scottish Parliament.
     
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  7. Wat

    Watcher_Of_The_Skies Well-Known Member

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    There's a couple of things here.

    1) Many of those places are so badly affected that any increase in money, which wasnt there before, will look like a pot of gold in comparison.
    2) It smacks of collective punishment - ie. Stop voting Labour and we'll give you money.

    If it happens. As I said elsewhere the Tories now own these places lock stock and barrel. No more excuses, no more denial of food banks and poor public services. It's all on them.
     
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  8. Sco

    Scoff Well-Known Member

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    Erm, 1.4m more people voted for parties with revoke or 2nd referendum in their manifestos than Leave. Majority does not appear to mean what you think it does.
     
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  9. Don

    Donks Well-Known Member

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    If the Lib Dem’s policy was suicidal, why did they attract more new voters than any other party at this election? 1.3 million more than they got in 2017.
     
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  10. Ata

    Atac Well-Known Member

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    I'll take your word for that, good point. But due to our 'first past the post' electoral system those people weren't in the 'right' places to influence the outcome. Which leads on to another debate about PR vs current system. I couldn't believe we accepted the current system in the referendum we had on that.
     
  11. Farnham_Red

    Farnham_Red Administrator
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    Well the OP seems to have a grasp of realisty different to mine
    Lib Dems got more votes than last time more people voted for remain/2nd ref parties than leave parties - but why let facts get in the way of opinions
    I agree that Labour needs a bit rethink - come the next election (assuming its in 2024 ) it will be over 50 years since a Labour Leader other than Blair has won an election. thats a thought that should concern those wanting to go hard left - didnt work for Foot and Kinnock hasnt worked for Milliband and Corbyn - maybe there is a bit of a pattern.
    Alternatively possible exception of Kinnock I dont think any of the others really stood out as leaders - they have to get a charismatic leader to have any chance next time out regardless of policies
     
  12. e-red

    e-red Well-Known Member

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    I think there’s a possibility of England going down to a size it hasn’t been since Elizabethan times. Scottish independence is now looking like a certainty and more nationalists were elected in Northern Ireland. Brexit has triggered independence and we become smaller and more focused on what is England. I don’t say that with any pride, because I think it’s a bad thing for all of us, but time will tell.
    Corbyn was the victim of personality politics and he was never going to be PM with some of the fringe causes he has espoused in the past. It’s time for labour to move to the centre, but many of the militant extremist may not allow that to happen in which case we are facing more than a decade in the wilderness and England will not look anything like it does now.
    Get ready to apply for your NHS card and if you go to the doctors more than your allocated number of times you’ll pay. Similarly for operations beyond your allocated budget. Wait for the launch of the Blue Criss health insurance scheme.
    The BBC is finished! The Tories didn’t like it anyway and despite its tongue being firmly attached to Johnson’s rear end he will kill it. Already talking about decriminalising the license scheme.
    There is probably a committee sitting right now to decide what they can charge you for that you don’t pay for now. God help those who can’t work for whatever reason, because it’s about to get a lot worse.
    I wondered whether socialism is dead, killed by the militant sect I mentioned earlier and I find that I can’t take issue with the labour manifesto, it would have made life better for all of us. That is apart that is from the idiot free wifi idea, surely it could have been free WiFi for people who can’t afford it and then it could have expanded to free internet access with provision of a free tablet, but free internet for all? No wonder the country didn’t trust him.
    Thank you for letting me get this off my chest it helps to ease the depression of five years of Boris f****** Johnson.
     
  13. Sco

    Scoff Well-Known Member

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    What did you think of John Smith as Labour leader? - he tragically never got to fight an election.
     
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  14. Sco

    Scoff Well-Known Member

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    In the digital age, broadband is essential for access to government services - although there is the potential for monitoring and censorship on a Chinese scale - and the last 3 home secretaries have all wanted more powers in that area passing at least 3 laws that were later found to be illegal.
     
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  15. Farnham_Red

    Farnham_Red Administrator
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    I thought he was great would have preferred him to Blair you are right about the tragedy of him dying far too young
     
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  16. e-red

    e-red Well-Known Member

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    Agree with that and by definition we are both on line or we wouldn’t be having this conversation and we pay for it because we can afford it. Why would I expect the government to pay for my access to a service I can afford to pay for? Now I know there are people in this country who can’t afford it and what I am saying is that they should be helped.
     
  17. Sco

    Scoff Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely, but if basic broadband is free - say a 2MB connection to each house with limited monthly downloads, then you can choose to pay for 10MB, 100MB or even GB. You can choose to pay for streaming services, more downloads, VPNs, etc.

    Same as you can get Freeview TV, but you can choose to pay for Sky, Virgin, Netflix or other services.
     
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  18. e-red

    e-red Well-Known Member

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    Still think it wasn’t a vote winner.
     
  19. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    The north will get zero from Johnson other than a privatised health service. The way it will go. We will pay for extra services out of the brexit bonus. There will be no brexit bonus just recession. Johnson will blame the EU / Labour / his granny. The idiots will lap it up. To pay for the extra investment all the vauguely profitable bits of the NHS will be farmed our to the private sector. Monies will not be used in the north. All remaining employment rights will be removed to stimulate the economy. Finally a review of education 4-16 as being free will be undertaken as it may no
    Longer be affordable. T
     
  20. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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