Thatcher or Scargill ?

Excellent summing up, and makes me laugh when others assume what went off without knowing the truth, well said pal.

 

100 % mate , or should I say comrade

 

1982. Me and my mates arrived at Corfu airport for a fortnight's holiday. Got to the passport checks desk and the airport security bloke took one look at our passports and said, "Ah... Barnsley." Then he raised his fist in the air and shouted at the top of his voice, "Arthur Scargill!" We laughed all the way to the hotel.

 

Thanks WG. I could go on forever the injustices pointed at the miners. As i bet you could. But my biggest pet hates are assumptions.
Also. "Ah but you lost"
"not without putting up a good fight and head held high" is my response unlike the udm who had their belly tickled and an I'm alright Jack attitude. Not my battle.

 

I had a Father, 2 Brothers, 6 Cousens an 3 Uncles on the picket lines, i stood with them from time to time and witnessed the Police actions at Orgreave, at the time i was a serving Soldier on leave an in all my 23yrs of Service i av never met a Squaddie nor know any that got dressed as a Copper's an stood with the Police, i do know one however that used to puncture all the Police vehicles tyres while they were residing in Strensall camp. Conspiracy theorists.

 

I look at it this way. I have no concrete evidence to suggest soldiers were used. But came across a few coppers ? with no badges. A few motives could explain why. The stitch up at the battle of Orgreave shown a while ago on tv by the head of SYP, It really wouldn't surprise me. What was going on. Don't forget police were sent to every working mine. Check points etc. And some of those were just out of nappies, so stretched to the limits.
As I say I have no proof. And tbh I would have thought it was summat impossible to keep under wraps all these yrs.
What I will say is , the Met were another breed of human being or alien. Witnessed on many occasions.

 

Virtually every problem with society today can be traced back to to Thatcherism. Utterly evil

 

No I didn't work down the pit, I worked at the NCB Mining Research and Development Establishment at Bretby near Burton on Trent. So I was quite well placed to hear the views of some of the lads who became scabs. A few men I knew told me that if there had been a national ballot they would have voted to strike.

My dad worked down the pit all his working life except for a couple of years in the RAF during the war, I was just thankful that he retired in 1980, he would have been on strike for sure.

 

What they told you and what they meant are another thing. I have 1st hand experience as a YW shop steward of people telling you what they think you'd like to hear. And the figures dint add up.
Most Notts miners were renowned for breaking strikes
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many Nottinghamshire miners did continue to work during the 1926 national strike, effectively breaking the strike in that area. While the national strike and general strike was called in support of the miners, a significant number of Nottinghamshire miners voted against striking and continued working, leading to divisions within the mining community and the creation of a scab union, the Union of Democratic Mineworkers (UDM), in later years.
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Allus said I'd prefer the truth even if I wasn't in favour of it. But it was 100% obvious some of those I believed, in fact lied.

 

Does he still own the Barbican flat?

 

Quite ironic the guy who set up the UDM, for the scabs went to prison for dipping in the till apparently .
They had a secret afternoon tea with Thatcher too

 

Scargill was stubborn about having a national ballot BUT let's not kid ourselves that it would have changed anything. Notts pits still would have remained open, they still would have been scabs.

 

It was split in Notts about 25% on strike and even more so in Derbyshire. Split north to south, north on strike, south working.

 

Sometimes a national ballot is not needed and I agree to your 2nd point. Sometimes the working class need to stand up to oppression.

Eg Reform want to rip up workers rights in the main.
Nigel Farage and the unions: Reform leader walks line between friend and foe https://www.theguardian.com/politic...line-between-friend-and-foe?CMP=share_btn_url

I remember the union movement supporting the nurses for example early 80s. Even Notts (how dare they not ?) . No ballot was necessary.
Solidarity the norm.

 

Divide and Conquer.
That is why the bonus scheme was introduced.
Canteen lasses in Notts were on bigger bonus payments than us.
Rich thick coal seams in easy conditions.
Lads towing their balls out in tough conditions on f#ck all.
Bad move we accepted this.

 

Bang on re Bonuses mate.
I think I've said it b4 mate. Mi Dad worked on the face at Platts common.
And his bonuses were sheite. Due to the working conditions in the small seams. The canteen women at the same pit were on more bonus than him. 40% of area average instead of pit average. (Those not aware, they had a choice)
The canteen women in the Selby coalfield were probably on more wages than me after bonuses. And I was A grade 1 sparky. As you know.

I had a big fallout with a union leader. Saying anyone outbound of the face (Face/,Headings 100% I totally agreed with) in the coal to wagon depts. Should get the same. Be it 70%. His excuse was, they work underground. I said the basic wage covered that. And if the cages./coal headgear or Driftbelt broke down. We were the ones to get em going again and woe betide it took too long.

 

A friend of mine back in 1985 had 2 pet hamsters. As anyone who's kept hamsters knows, unless they are a male/female pair, they don't really get on so she had to keep these two males in separate cages. She called them Scargill and MacGregor...

 

In a national ballot of NUM members it was rejected. But Nottingham area voted in favour and went to court to argue that it should be implemented in Nottingham. They won. Once Nottingham were going to get bonuses the other areas couldn't hold out, and so the bonus scheme nationally came in.
I maintain that if there had been a ballot in 1984 in favour of strike action, but Nottingham voted against, they would not have followed the national vote. They had history, 1926 strike

 

Scargill wasn't stubborn, he followed the Union rules. At a Special NUM Conference in April 1984 to discuss the strike, delegates voted against a ballot. Arthur could not go against the wishes of the Conference

 

Also, most of them Notts Mansfield lot have conservatories built paid for by claiming fort white finger.