Taking a leaf from West Ham

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by wakeyred, Dec 13, 2017.

  1. wak

    wakeyred Well-Known Member

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    they've matched Man City, Chelsea and Arsenal after looking like they were going down before that. Moyes has done 3 things:

    1) made them difficult to beat - the first step to turning things around, don't concede goals or at least reduce the chances you give. It is a fact that not conceding a goal is worth more points then scoring a goal over a season (obviously because once you've scored one, their value is reduced on further goals you score and you're not guaranteed any points even if you do score - BUT you will get at least one point everytime you do not concede)

    2) made them fitter - running 7km a game further then they were before he took over - effort goes a long way

    3) formation - changed to 3-5-2 has made them more solid at the back and given them more options going forward.

    We should be seriously looking at 3-5-2 and concentrating on defending to cut out the soft goals - I concede we might need a new Goal Keeper to help on that front.
     
    Googs, Connor and Kettlewell like this.
  2. redarmychris

    redarmychris Well-Known Member

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    They have experienced players who enjoy playing that type of game.

    We don't have any experienced defensive minded players.

    Our squad was built to play on the front foot and press high. Because of the imbalance where we were looking like a 'five a side' team we've tweaked our pressing and high tempo into nothingness whilst still being awful in defence.

    In fact we're conceding more now than when the whole midfield used to leave Williams defending counter attacks by himself.
     
  3. Barnsley Chopin

    Barnsley Chopin Well-Known Member

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    He got Sunderland relegated- he's no ******* messiah!
     
  4. MappRed

    MappRed Well-Known Member

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    If we were to play a variation of 3-5-2/5-3-2 then it’s essential that the wide men are able to contribute when we are in possession otherwise the system suddenly becomes incredibly defensive and horribly narrow.

    If 3-5-2/5-3-2 were the system of choice then this would be my starting XI based on the current crop:-

    GK - Davies

    RWB - Yiadom/McCarthy
    RCB - Yiadom/McCarthy
    CB - MacDonald
    LCB - Lindsey
    LWB - Fryers

    CM - Williams
    CM - Potts
    CAM - Barnes

    ST - Bradshaw
    ST - Thiam

    Personally I’d love to see Barnes at the head of a midfield three where he’s able to drive with the ball direct at the heart of the oppositions defence. He also has the ability to get beyond the forwards and would be a handful for any DM who’s tasked with tracking/marking him.

    That system would also allow for both Barnes and Thiam to drift wide whilst still remaining fairly solid in the centre of the park.

    I’m aware that the inclusion of Potts will be criticised and I admit that Gardner would’ve been my preferred choice alongside Williams in a solid central two but unfortunately his performances have been incredibly poor of late.
     
  5. wak

    wakeyred Well-Known Member

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    I'm just telling you what he's done to turn around West Ham.
     
  6. SirPsychoSexy

    SirPsychoSexy Banned Idiot

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    To be fair Sunderland were already garbage. There’s some good players at West Ham.
     
  7. troff

    troff Well-Known Member

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    Yes the mackems were world beaters before he went...

    Why do you think Allardyce left? He knew they’d had their chips.

    Nobody would have kept them up, that club has been rotting inside to out for years. Look at them at the mo.
     
  8. Nog

    Nogger Active Member

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    This is a very good point, look at Burnley, they are in the top 6 and have only scored 16 goals in 17 games. Arsenal have scored 30 goals and are below them! Boring to watch mind, but it works for them.
     
  9. fit

    fitzytyke2 Well-Known Member

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    Bit too soon to judge West Ham and Moyes yet for me. Still 2nd bottom, he's won 1 game.

    Did well beating Chelsea and drawing with Arsenal, but these are London derbies and anything is possible. They're going to have to do better than "hard to beat" if they want to get out of trouble.

    I actually said we had become hard to beat when when draws at Hillsborough and Carrow road came at the beginning and end of a decent run of results, but since then we've conceded 13 goals in 5 games without scoring in open play.
     
  10. wak

    wakeyred Well-Known Member

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    Yes too early, but at least they're heading in the right direction unlike us. If someone offered us 4 points from a possible 9 against the top 3 in the Championship we'd bite their hand off.
     
  11. fit

    fitzytyke2 Well-Known Member

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    But that's my point. 5 games ago we were heading in the right direction with 1 defeat from 8.

    Things can change very quickly in football and also, West Ham are generally underachieving. Their wage bill is just outside the top 6 in the premier league, where as ours is probably bottom 3 championship.
     
  12. ryhilltyke

    ryhilltyke Well-Known Member

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    We will massively improve If we stop picking players like Yiadom. Who clearly isn't interested in being here.
     
  13. MappRed

    MappRed Well-Known Member

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    I personally don’t believe that Yiadom is the root of our on field problems. Yes he’s having a nightmare of late but so are 95% of the squad. We’re making mistakes all over the park whether it be in the chances we’re missing or the goals we’re conceding, it’s not simply down to one player, although I wish it was as it would be far easier to resolve if that were the case.

    PH has stated that Yiadom is the model professional and I have no reason to doubt that.
     
  14. Ext

    Extremely Northern Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. Look at what's happening in front of them - Joe Williams' performances have tailed off imho - and that is only to be expected of a teenager playing his first full season at a competitive level, Potts is in and out of games as he comes to terms with stepping up 2 levels, Moncur doesn't give (yet) the all round game that it took Hourihane 18 months to achieve and so we have a deficient midfield currently, whereas previously it had started to look a decent unit.

    The majority of our current problems lie in the fact that (rightly or wrongly) we have an untried team in the main, and as a unit they are learning by making errors.
     
  15. fit

    fitzytyke2 Well-Known Member

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    I keep hearing this "clearly not interested" in relation to Moncur, and I don't buy it. Same with Yiadom.

    If a manager is fielding disinterested players, then surely it's his responsibly not to?

    Some are saying we are using Yiadom to put him in the shop window, which could be true, but he's hardly going to not try on purpose.

    Top and bottom of it is the whole team isn't good enough. We've won 5 games all season. It's not down to anyone not trying or not being interested, we're just struggling against better paid, experienced players.

    You look at the table and think we should beat Bolton, and on the day you could see their frailties as we walked through them in the second half, but they still had a player that could cause us problems in Madine experienced, and probably well out of price range or wouldn't fit in with "the plan"
     
  16. Red

    Red CB Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you , but fans perceive he will be away in january & has become public enemy number one , they just love a soft target
     

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