O/T Meat and Fish Market

Thanks for the other side of it Jay, l suppose it all depends on the amounts of the compensation packages, something we probably won't find out. All we've heard in the local media is disgruntled market owners although there was this last week

https://www.barnsleychronicle.com/a...rket-brings-in-first-customers-of-new-complex

 

Thanks for that. It’s good to hear another side to the debate.

 

This whole debate is wrong - because Barnsley Council has got the direction of Barnsley wrong.
Ok there needs to be a few shops - but the direction of Barnsley shouldn’t be that of a shopping area.

The direction of Barnsley should be a cafe / bar culture with people actually living in the town centre and commuting to Leeds and Sheffield.
There should be no large new buildings in Barnsley without apartments built above them.

 

Like I said, didn't mean to imply that you were in any way passing on information you knew to be false. What you were told is not actually false it's just not the whole story.

I want Barnsley to be great again. I think the council are trying to make that happen. I know they don't get everything right but people are already dissing this new development before it has even opened. I'm not suggesting you were doing that, not at all, just wanted to pass on what my mate said as I'm always quizzing him about what I read on here Think he's going to stop going out for a drink with me to be honest!

 

Sky scraper Barnsley? No ta

 

I’m happy for them to make Barnsley great again... but to try and compete with Leeds, Meadowhall, etc is not going to work. The market was the areas U.S.P. If they change its identity, they could kill it off.

I like hearing all sides of this debate, there’s been some very interesting posts.

 

You look at any good business which is thriving despite stiff competition, they do so because they find their niche and use it to their advantage.

If Barnsley & Huddersfield etc. try to compete with the big cities and the big shopping centres around them they are going to lose every time.

 

Did you mean to reply to someone else?

 

Yes, sorry. Both yourself and Gordon Owen, who started the thread, gave pretty similar replies one after each other. Two posts that were alike from two people with names beginning with the same letter is way too confusing for me!

 

In 2011 when the council announced the first vision of their new proposed works it was originally going to cost approx £150 million. Things then got really diluted in terms of quality and the budget slashed to somewhere int he total region of £120 million.

In May this year the whole project was added to the councils risk register as a strategic risk due to rising costs and the risk that the council may not be able to claw back the cost within a reasonable time period. They had set up £10 million contingency fund which had been largely used so pumped in another £6.5 million into this. It is a massive risk trying to reboot a failing town centre where most major retailers left years ago for pastures new.

One thing we did have was the markets, although they are not what they used to be years ago.

I wrote to the chronicle back when they announced the initial works suggesting Barnsley take a differing approach to trying to bring back the big retailers who found home in the likes of Meadowhell.

My approach would have been to bring life to the markets and make them the driving force of the town again. Knock down all the concrete 70's eyesore buildings and replace with a mixture of landscaped / tree lined circular pathways lined with modern market stalls. Encasing the market, I would have had a ring of single storey units for slightly larger retailers and also to house any meat / fish retailers. At the centre of the whole thing, I suggested a performance area, with built in seating using natural resources rather than tacky metal patio chairs.

My idea was to develop and promote the whole focus that you come to Barnsley for all those bespoke / niche items. Craft cheeses / food stuffs, hand made stuff. Something on the basis of a big farmers market with local produce but expanding that to include non food items.

Imagine something similar to in York, 'The Shambles' but on a larger scale, that was my vision.

I reckon that sort of offering would again attract the coach trips from around the country, especially if the council made the environment extra special around Xmas etc. Look at the visitors that flock to the likes of Lincoln Xmas market, tap into that niche and build something special all year round.

Now with the far simplified version of a welcoming, picturesque Barnsley town centre, I'm sure that vision could have been achieved more in the region of £20 - £30 million, possibly saving vasts amounts of public money.

Then came the economic regeneration. My idea was that due to the massive projected savings, sign the traders and retailers up on a minimum 5 year term. Offer the first 2 years rent / service charge free and then move onto a profit share basis for the next 3 years and beyond, where the council receives a payment based on a percentage of each traders / retailers profit or a reasonable minimum contribution whichever is the greater. This is done to try and gain 100% occupancy. Maintain quality control over the type of traders accepted ie, we don't want an entire market selling vaping products or mobile phone cases. It's getting that buzz of offering something different that will remake Barnsley, I don't see the current development doing this. Ok the buildings may look newer but you can go to any other place Leeds / sheff / Meadowhall and get the same if not a better offering.

Apologies for the war and peace.

 

Fantastic idea that!

 

Farm shops now do all this but are out of town, easy to get to and with free parking. Produce also locally sourced.

The one at Blackerhall farm has regular ‘guests’ selling crafts, cheeses, wines, curries etc. Added to this a cafe shop and children’s play areas. Rob Royds is pretty similar.

 

Small scale though.. Think of that scaled up..

 

And not just food....

 

its no surprise gally,i can tell you from first hand experience how difficult it is being a retailer,we live in a country where cheap prices are paramount to most people,sooner or later only the big players will be left as others struggle to make a living.Ground rents,utility bills and the living wage are the three main causes of shop closures..I was once in a debate on this board over the living wage and someone posted that if you cant afford to pay it then you shouldnt be in business,,,well,this is whats happening, as more and more traders fall by the waysideI'm lucky that i have a decent pit pension to fall back on because in the not too distant future my shop will be up for sale and the only ones willing to work in this environment are asians,mainly Sri lankans..the whole family is in with no outside members of staff.

I'd hazard a guess that non are as sml as 30sq ft,thats 10x3 which is probably the size of their counter,so imagine what they are paying on 100sq foot...now you know why traders are chaulkin f on it.

 

How do you think the rest of us feel when you and Jamo both post? It even gave you the same colour avatar

 

Agree 100%. Similar to my idea at the time (in my head) the modernisation was announced. Living in Europe the culture (Germany Italy for example) is that large areas (cobbled in many cases) are open spaces in the town centres for parking except for market days. A small team of people are employed to erect stalls and many traders use self contained van/stalls. A small permanent market hall is located centrally for delis, meat fish cheese and cafes with, as you also said a pergola covered /performance area . Far cheaper capital outlay, provides employment, cheaper to maintain. One drawback is that market days are staggered in many regions so the same traders can work 5 or 6 days by travelling to the different markets , which isn't the case here, but a co-ordinated approach to do the same in surrounding towns like Penistone, Wombwell and various other shopping centres could achieve the same objective. IMO the chosen option lacks imagination and was deemed an easy, safe, conventional approach by throwing money at it to produce something currently in vogue (a mini shopping mall like the out of town ones except it is IN the town). Incidentally what is happening with the promised cineplex.

EDIT! Forgot to mention a BIG difference. Whilst tax is high in Italy, currently the concept of taxing profit is the norm. Opening the shop /bar/ restaurant does not incur high rates etc. Profits though are taxed. So you only pay as a small business when you are making money.

 

I’ve just been into Chesterfield today and the town centre is really good, although some bigger names have left, the market is an excellent setup. Having lived in Barnsley for 40 years, I know which town centre I prefer.
They’ve also got a massive Greggs, although I’m not sure if the floor space adds up to all those we have in tarn ;-)

 

Think the avatar colour is based off the 1st character of the name.

 

Went in the new one today, clean, bright and looks quality. Only half the stalls taken though, with 2 in advance talks.

Quality bit of fillet steak bought though.