O/T Tonight's vote

Absolutely correct, all the EU have done is work to get the best deal for them, the same as we should be doing for us. The difference between us and them is 2 fold, 1) They are showing a united front, 2)They seem clear about what they want, whereas we didn’t/dont, if you start from there as a negotiating point you are in a weak position.
In terms of the hard border not sure why this is an issue for EU given they allow France to have a 450 mile hard border with Brazil but aren’t concerned about it.

 

It’s taken 2 years, billions of pounds, thousands of wasted hours and a historic commons defeat for May to even begin to consider conversing across party lines and yet this sort of person still blames Corbyn.

People like this are very scary indeed.

 

The problem he has is large sections of the Labour party don't want Brexit at all. I agree it would be best if everyone just sat down and came to a sensible compromise. But it's politics and that won't happen.

 

The stark problem is that 40 odd percent of the Tory base want Brexit and the same with Labour and both parties are s**t scared of losing that portion of their base so they continue to sit on the fence, try to score partisan points where they can and fudge the Brexit issue entirely.
It's a f***ing disaster.

 

To me, the main lesson from all this is that you shouldn't ask people, on either side, a question they have no idea how to answer. Cameron will go down in history as having done more harm to this country than, well, anyone.

 

I’d caveat that... British people shouldn’t be asked questions which they don’t understand, are too easily influenced, or are too gullible. Our country is set up this way and the media have been peddling rubbish, ever worsening, for decades. Politicians now just lie and spin and soundbite but have nothing beyond that. It’s grim.

I’ll contrast this with Switzerland. A few years pre Brexit, a friend from Ukraine who has worked all over the world and then worked in Geneva was sharing how the Swiss take pride in their referendums and they have them every few months. I can’t recall the exact example, but in one the country rejected what would amount to a pay rise because they didn’t feel it necessary. Imagine that happening in Britain. And imagine the pressure in the media ahead of a referendum, whatever the topic. Many people now place the same responsibility and consideration of an electoral vote, the same as the latest skewed sugar coated staged X factor vote.

 

Agree with you, but however you look at it he is better involved than not.
All he’s doing at minute is trying to point score and grandstand.
Parking the rights or wrongs of the vote result the biggest **** up in all this is May not allowing an all party delegation.
By refusing to get involved by making demands that he knows can’t be met all he is doing is compounding that **** up.

 

At a time when he is attempting to audition for prime minister Corbyn looks the opposite of statesmanlike when he refuses to enter talks. He could go along and present his views (or perhaps even his party's!) and still make the point to May that the price of Labour's co-operation in a solution is to remove the no deal option.

 

Hasn't he demanded that she takes 'No Deal' off the table as a condition of talks ? I'm not particularly a Corbyn fan, but that seems a very sensible thing to me. Oh, and why has it taken her two years to decide to talk to any party other than a bunch of bigots from Northern Ireland?

 

Hi,

With respect, the author disagree that it leads towards further federalization and a more United Europe within the next 20 years.

 

On the last point, because her party is riddled with fractures, that’s her prime need, to keep a Tory govt in situ and the party “together”. The dup was the smallest party that tipped them over into majority land.. but agree, what a vile party.

As for Corbyn. He fell for the bait completely. It’s fine to call for no deal removal, but to use it to stop discussion when you’ve called for cross party discussion looks like he is only acting for political gain. Which he is, obviously, but it weakens his stance. May had endured the worst defeat ever, in 24hrs, Corbyn has taken some pressure off rather than ratcheting it up.

He should’ve done the no confidence vote in December, but since he delayed, he shouldn’t have been goaded into it and let May stew in the defeat and look either unmoving, uncaring, or devoid of ideas. When asked to meet, he could’ve met, then after suggested May refused to remove no deal or extend article 50 and was putting the country in jeopardy.

Subtle shift, huge difference in perception and outcomes.

 

Bang on, DWLC.

 

You are probably right. But the real culprit, in my opinion, is Cameron. Wonder how long before he is 'elevated' to the House Of Lords' ?!

 

What is best for this country is doing anything he can to get this government out.

Brexit and everything else can be better sorted then. If he sat to negotiate last night you can guarantee May would have walked away blaming him for no agreement and put no deal Brexit at the fault of Labour. He can’t allow that to happen, and that is because it isn’t right for the country, not just because it isn’t right for him.

Corbyn might be many things but he’s nowhere near as self serving as May and most of her colleagues.

 

He can't sit down and discuss if May isn't willing to compromise on a major issue like a no deal brexit.... May has been saying from the start no deal is better than a bad deal then she presents a bad deal that's leading us towards no deal.... Was that her plan all along?

 

The irony being that it was the misguided votes of bigots (not from Northern Ireland) who’s actions got her into power in the first place.

Not all people who voted leave had bigoted, racist views. I’d never say that, there are plenty of sensible reasons someone would have voted leave depending on their own circumstances.

But I’d wager everyone who has bigoted and racist views voted leave. It was the Tommy Robinson-esque views of some in the areas that were so strongly leave like round here that made the difference. Sad really, as two and a half years later the far right racist movement seem to be getting a bigger and louder voice.

I dread to think what we are to become as a country.

 

No deal can't be taken off the table because it's the default scenario. It's what happens when all else fails. They can pretend it's not there, but that wouldn't mean anything. Just playing word games.

 

They can remove it as the default though, which they should do cos it's ridiculous to even contemplate it.

 

There are many many culprits. He is but one. It’s a play that’s been acted out for decades, and has plenty of villains both in parliament and outside.

 

It's a parliamentary democracy isn't it? If MP's vote for the legislation it surely can be taken off the table.