o/t Any ex-miners who could help me with a query about the differences between Yorks and Notts?

I've seen the Price of Coal,it's great. It was written by Barry Hines (a kestrel for a knave) whose research into the strike testimonies I've been looking at at the University of Sheffield.

Btw if I went back to school young now I think I'd take economics. I'm fascinated by it.

 

Hi folks I remember the biggest reason which caused division across regions and workforce was the bonus scheme based on production output.
I remember the ladies in the canteen at Royston drift earning more bonus pay than the lads grafting in the **** hole on 75s coal face at Dodeth ,risking serious injury every shift due to the horrible conditions .
As an apprentice I vague remember being banned from working on the coal face as it was so bad.
This divided pit against pit man against man areas against areas as Notts were earning huge bonus pay .
I also remember divisions in the Barnsley area based on huge bonus pay.
It was a real match winner from the point of management to divide the workers .
And yes we were miners divided we were always going to be defeated .
Hence the chant were miners united we will never be defeated.
WE were defeated .
One day we will get justice for Orgreave .

 

A lot of Schools in South Yorkshire used Coal for heating purposes. They had either Robin Hood or Beeston boilers
fitted and both were notorious for needing new retorts which burned out due to the eventual build up of hot ash content.
In the mid 80's Coal supplies of the right Calorific values were in abundance e.g Manvers, Hatfield, Brodsworth, Rossington,
Allerton Bywater etc. British Coal therefore used to take Coal from these pits to one of their land sale sites, wash, screen
and blend the coals from the various pits to produce a product with the right CV, ash, volatiltes etc, so as not to damage
the boilers in which it was to be burned. The eventual pit closure programme made the continued supply of deep mined UK
coals very difficult. British Coal was subsequently bought by Richard Budge who eventually sold to Coal4Energy( now Hargreaves.) The decimation of the mining industry in the Yorkshire field led to Coal4Energy bringing in Coal supplies from Daw Mill(Coventry) and blending it with Coal from Thoresby ( Notts) to meet the required specification. I always remember goingt to the Mansion House in Doncaster with Doncasters Energy Manager to warn Councillors, many of who were there through the support of mining communities, that the day was fast approaching, that they would have to consider buying " foreign" mined Coals, which didn't go down very well and guaranteed us a very frosty reception.
I don't know how true it is, but a sales guy from a British Coal once told us, that during the 1985 strike, they were selling
Nottinghamshire mined Coal to heat the main NUM offices in Barnsley. To my mind, to do that, they would have had to falsify the landsale tare ticket which was left with the recipient, because it always showed the pit where the Coal(s) had been originally mined, irrespective of whether they were blended.

 

Thanks, Bazza. That's an area I didn't know about. It's amazing how complex these divisions were.

 

I developed software for a system called MIDAS which controlled the drum position on shearing machines using natural gamma radiation to measure the thickness of coal left in the roof. At some pits, on the return pass, they deliberately cut into the muck below the coal to increase the ash content and thereby avoid blending etc. This was particularly in respect of coal destined for power stations. I worked at Bretby (MRDE later renamed to HQTD) near Burton on Trent.

 

My late Uncle was based at Hatfield Colliery and was very active in the NUM and was always very
outspoken about the bonus system. The NUM paid for him to go to Ruskin College
(Oxford) where he obtained a qualification in Industrial Relations. As a result he was always included
in any dispute discussions and dedicated himself to getting Compo for injured miners or those affected by dust.
I always remember seeing him in a discussion on Yorkshire Tv's Calendar programme on the unfairness of the bonus
scheme in the mining industry. The then Chairman of the Coal Board Lord Ezra was expounding at some length the reasons to justify its methodology. My uncle hit the nail on the head when he said lads were riding on belts to try and speed up
production and were taking other risky practices that could put them in danger. He turned to Lord Ezra and said "could I ask, what bonus scheme are you in.?" Ezra was caught flat footed and didn't know what to say in answer to that. In all fairness though to him, after his retirement, his sympathies lined up with those of the NUM and the lads to protest against the pit closure programme to show his support for the coal mining industry.

 

It seems from listening to people on this thread that the divisions ran deep between pits even without considering the divide between Yorks and Notts unions. It would make sense to have one bonus scheme for all miners (I suppose based on hours worked?) given nationalisation. Maybe this was not possible due to the differing conditions in which different pits operated. The Ridley Plan mentions exploiting these divisions by offering favourable packages and guarantees to more biddable unions as was the case with the Notts miners. They did a fantastic job of that, but would still have probably lost if even NACODs had walked out after they voted to towards the end of the Strike.

 

I worked on that face you are on about 75's in the Winmoore seam darn low side at Doduth but not as regular job as at that time I was in't market. 72's was also a dog hole.

 

The “incentive” scheme was devised by The National Coal Board as It was then to be divisive.
As has been said the canteen staff on area bonus could get more than miners at the coal face working in dangerous conditions .
But that’s why it was brought in . It was rejected nationally but coal board plants in the Notts area called for it to be introduced area by area which the Coal board did ( so much for the notts miners wanting a strike ballot the irony )
Bizarrely it meant miners working in hard dangerous and difficult conditions were paid less than miners in fairly comfortable ( for mining) conditions.
Also annual pay negotiations were centred around the incentive scheme so the basic pay was eroded and the incentive payments were at the hands of the Management.
Divide and Rule and it didn’t come as a surprise The NUM forecast this years before the strike .

 

What year was that, was this incentive scheme implemented pre-tories? Was the National Coal Board divisive pre- MacGregor? I thought his appointment marked its transition into an instrument for the Tory Government.Cheers for your help

 

The bonus system was extremely flawed. There were 4 levels. 100% for men at the face. (Acceptable.) then 70. 60 and 40% outby. 40% for surface workers. As everyone outby contributed to getting the coal to its destination, I believe. they should have had the same reward Eg 70%. I once had an argument with a shop steward regarding the unfairness. His response well those that get 70/60 % work underground. What the hell that had to do with a bonus scheme bewildered me. The conditions they worked in were included in the basic pay. If the drift belts or coal shafts failed. It was the surface lads responsibility to get them going again.

 

Hey up 'upthecolliers'. Could you give me an idea of what made a face a 'dog hole' compared to a better one to work at? What sort of conditions are we talking about that made it horrible? Many thanks

 

I may as well have not bothered with the university and just asked the good folk of the BBS . Amazing stuff thanks!

 

Not sure but I think the bonus scheme came in the early eighties . It was imo brought in to soften resistance as to what was to come .
I think the Tories plan was coming into effect at this time but warily . After the Falklands conflict and Maggies resounding victory in 83 she turned the screws honing the lessons of the car workers and Steelworkers conflict and appointing the same man McGregor to oversee it .
These are my views but they are based on what I’ve been told and interpreted myself .

 

Hi mate. Coincidentally, I’m researching the same topic. If u discover anything interesting I’d be pleased to hear.

 

You've presented it better than me Marlon. I was bitterly opposed to the scheme. Spirit D . On my part, re your original query. Bonus's were not what the strike was about. Jobs and communities were at the forefront.

 

Geological fault conditions mainly but bad management sending wrong tools / machines could play a part.
Sometimes if you were going over top or underneath old workings from another seam could be dicy.
The problems mainly having to shore up multiple cave ins before you could extract the next cut of coal etc which could take a lot of time and hard work

 

Have you read all the thread because there’s a few stories from people on the ground that might interest you .
I know you and spirit will probably be looking for things which for the ordinary miner were a bit complicated and for the ordinary miner but it’s how we saw it and how we tried to fight it .
I can’t help you with the political beurocracy of it though.

 

Cheers mate. So you're having to manually dig out cave-ins, things like that?