Brexit - Labour to back 2nd referendum

For anyone still advocating No Deal.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">1/ Hello You There <br><br>This is your Government here</p>&mdash; Alexander (@37paday) <a href=""></a></blockquote>

 

Complete betrayal of the first referendum if this happens.

This thing about not knowing what voting to leave was.... Another remain lie.. We were told exactly, leave the EU, leave the single market, leave the customs union, leave the grasp of ECJ. It's not rocket science, just the remain element who have worked throughout to circumvent the original vote with their guise of you don't know what you voted for because we don't know what the future looks like in 10 years... Well, not one person from remain can equally say what the future of remaining in the EU will look like in the future. It is all guessing games.. So the don't know claims are pure bull.
We didn't vote to be poorer??? - We voted to leave the EU establishment in favour of a comprehensive free trade agreement with the Eu along with the ability to start to forge these around the globe on our agreed terms. We all expected short term for their to be some disruption, maybe a smaller economy to start off with from leaving the EU. It's not all about finances, alot of people who voted to leave did not want the ever closer political union.

All I hear is still some stupid comment about people being too stupid to understand that saying something on a bus doesn't form any legal foundation, nor did it say we would spend £350 million extra on the NHS each week.. But Leave broke financial rules... did any of that influence my decision? Not in the slightest..
But Russia interfered...give it a rest..lol, like that had any impact..
In fact the pro remain dialogue coming from the likes of Mark Carney is more of a worry, someone who should not be getting politically involved, especially in the whole project fear, peddled by the likes of Tony Blair, Alastair Campbell - Some fine upstanding people (NOT)..
Former chancellors saying the minute we vote to leave, we would have to invoke an emergency budget..
Anything that goes wrong in the country immediately it is obviously the fault of Brexit, then also people using the same things and saying austerity is to blame.. Errr make your minds up, you clearly didn't know what you voted for when you voted to remain..
Labour party lies, promising to abide by the decision to leave, then Corbyn shows his true colours as he does a Nick Clegg again and thinks he can pull at the heartstrings of the pro remain camp by offering a 2nd referendum.


In short, if another referendum is called because the minority call for one, it has become the greatest political betrayal in modern UK history.

 

But if the majority still want to leave then the outcome would be the same? How would another democratic process be a betrayal?

 

Not really it’s still open to Democratic process .
If they don’t have a referendum then permanently stop A50 then that’s a betrayal .

 

My dad voted leave for extra money for the NHS as did my mum. She still has no idea what the single market is.

Leading leave figures like Farage said we would not leave the Single market so that’s simply untrue.

Offering people more democracy can never be undemocractic.

 

It was clear from the PM at the time, there would be no re-runs of the vote. This was the one vote in a generation to decide.. He said the choice was simple, remain as a member with all the reforms the EU were willing to accept from his talks which were pretty much ZERO reform, or the other choice, leave the EU, single market, customs union and ECJ..

If we are talking a 3 month extension to A50, well it would take a minimum of 6 months to organise a referendum.. Plus realistically it would take our set of politicians 15 yrs to decide what question to put on the paper.

 

But there could be more money for the NHS based on not paying the EU masses every week. But nobody ever said we would send a full £350 million to the NHS. It simply did not happen ever.. It just said lets fund our NHS instead.. Yes, but there are other services as well of the NHS.

 

I refer you to the video I posted earlier in the thread of a man giving interview outside Barnsley interchange. That is one. Of how many people there are like him, who can truly tell. But there is a significant tide of that ilk in this country and suggest anything other than that is disingenuous. Its also disingenuous to say that 17.4m people in unison all voted on the basis of revoking ever closer political union (remember Cameron actually negotiated that wouldn't happen for the UK, but the right wing press rubbished that as it wasn't politically convenient).

There are some who don't believe in the EU. Who don't want to be closer to it. I understand that. That's their choice. There are also racist bigots/ There are also xenophobes who think leaving the EU will bring an end to all migrants and we may actually deport "them". There are some who are struggling and have perceived or been influenced to perceive that its the fault of the EU, not of the government, not of the media, not of globalisation. There are some who want their regional area to improve, to provide more opportunity, to enhance their life and think leaving the Eu will do that. There are some who were influenced to vote a certain way by pressure from peers and relatives. And there will be many other variants and factions and splinters. I can assure you, to tar a binary choice with the perception that every single one of the 17.4m people voted for exactly the same reason and for exactly the same outcome, is how you describe as.. poor bull.

So let's not pretend there is 100% perfect unity in a leave movement, when it absolutely isn't.

We live in a democracy where people have the ability to make a choice on a regular basis. To deny that right and call it undemocratic in the light of further information, more analysis, more scrutiny... well that's just not a country I want to live in or be part of.

Just as its against everything I believe in to smear, attack and decry any information that it produced to give some insight, just because it isn't convenient. Sadbrewer posts some interesting things (though we don't agree) that can pose food for thought. Some are a bit extreme and seem hyperbole and subjective, but some comments and points have validity and a different point of view. Just because I voted remain and will do again, whether in a 2nd referendum or when we look to rejoin the EU, it doesn't mean I can't look at other aspects and continually assess and judge.

And its certainly not project fear that the economy has massively slowed in the last quarter and job losses are now being announced that have been in the offing for a year or more.

It's all a mess and nobody is prepared for this, and what I find most sad is that the political classes largely are just pandering to the populist view rather than standing up and saying what they believe and what is the truth from the huge amounts of data they have at their disposal.

 

The thing about brexit is that I thought they’d squeak when I rubbed their heads but they’re a bit slimier than I thought.
Sorry I keep getting brexit mixed up with dolphins.

 

Just don't understand why you see it as a betrayal? It's the opportunity to make a more informed decision and check we are sure that we want to proceed with the biggest decision of any of our lifetimes, which can not be reversed on the beneficial terms that we currently enjoy. You are asked "Are you sure" on virtually every decision you make in day to day to life before you proceed with something. Why shouldn't that be the case on something this seismic?

 

https://www.agencyuk.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/imgID66721521.jpg

Cant imagine why anyone may be misled that £350m a week would instead be spent on the NHS.

 

I can equally show videos of people scared into voting to remain because they thought we would not be able to some of the following :-

1. Not compete in Eurovision.
2. Not compete in the European football tournaments.
3. We would be unable to travel outside of he UK for holidays
4. We could have to close the channel tunnel.

Some great reasons for voting remain, they simply didn't know what they were voting for...

People say we now have a more informed choice.... No we don't, the option is still the same..

Remain the EU with ZERO knowledge of what the future will look like with the failing European project.
or
Leave the EU, Single Market, Customs union, ECJ.. Replace with free trade agreements.

Nothing has changed, other than the same people who predicted immediate doom during the referendum coming into effect the second we vote to leave.. Did not happen... They predict that the same doom will fall upon us once we are free of the EU.. Maybe a little hit short term but things will level back out once our more outwardly facing vision becomes a reality..

Europe has more chance of failing as a bloc than us as a standalone nation in my opinion, the cracks are appearing everywhere in the EU as the political will shifts. Trouble is, those at the centre of the EU are open to ZERO reform and failure to evolve will be the writing on the wall.

 

Does that say all of that would be spent n the NHS.. Nah, thought not.

 

Go on then share these videos.

 

So you do concede that people weren’t fully informed on the last vote on both sides.
Surely you can see that now a vote would be more informed than last time and that’s democracy in it purest form .

 

Plus if the brexit bus is the only thing that people can keep coming back with its a poor show. Just like we can keep quoting Osbourne's emergency budget that didn't happen with increased taxes etc, which for the record was more than £350 million lie.. Talking billions with that one!

 

Here’s your man.

 

Get yersen on youtube, I 'm not your PA.

 

You’ve just said you can equally share these videos. Please do.

 

Here's your hero Osbourne telling us what he would have to do the moment we voted leave, not £350 million, he was talking £30 Billion.... Weighing the two up..mmmm