O/T Shemima Begum - Legal Aid

Are conflicts usually between peaceful organisations?

 

I understand there as to be negotiations to have cease fires/ to end wars etc, but attending a PIRA funeral, saying goodbye/ paying respect is so far from bringing about peace

 

I can understand how if you believe that interpretation of his involvement in that period that you hold those views. I would say though that looking forward he is one of the few politicians who wouldn't needlessly involve our armed forces in conflict and has their well being at the core of his principles.

 

He attended these functions/ funerals / Remembrance ceremonies long before he had any political sway, I really dont think it's an interpretation but a true reflection of the man himself

 

Are Hamas a peaceful organisation.

Yes. No.

 

I meant the interpretation of the events he attended and what the purpose of any events he did attend were. This is very much in dispute, but people aren't going to change their minds on that regardless of denials or assertions

 

No. Who is in any place of conflict? Do you solve the middle east geo-political issue by talking to peaceful organisations? Because you'd be sat in a room on your own

 

Just been reading that Shamima Begum said some time ago, that she could well seek asylum in
Bangladesh where her Father now lives. As we know, the U.K. Home Secretary refused her entry into
this Country and revoked her British citizenship. Bangladesh Foreign Minister Abdul Momen has warned,
that if she does turn up in the country, she would be put on trial and the likely outcome for anyone
involved in terrorism, is the death penalty. After receiving that news, the families Legal representative
said the chances of her now going to Bangladesh were " vanishly remote." Shrewd people are lawyers.

 

So Bangladesh would do things according to the due process of their legal system, whereas we wouldn't. That's actually slightly embarrassing.

 

Are you praising a country for following a legal process that could end with the death penalty?

 

I didn't interpret it in that way, I think the point was that even these draconian states that people heavily criticise still do things by the book, whereas we have not. I'm against the death penalty by the way.

 

Same as Saddam Hussein, cant believe they hung him, what a draconian country, do you think they should not have made him swing

 

No, I think that the death penalty is abhorrent in all circumstances. I'm simply using it to illustrate the point that if a country like Bangladesh would use its legal system to deal with her, then it makes it look rather absurd that Britain, a supposed beacon of democracy and the rule of law, seems to be trying to operate outside its legal framework to deal with Begum.

By the way, I am not in any way doubting that in all likelihood Bangladesh has a very shoddy legal system. But however inadequate it may be, it is still several steps above mob rule or summary punishment without due process, which is what a lot of people in the UK seem to be calling for in this case.

 

Just to clarify, I wasn't implying that you were in favour of the death penalty - I am certain you are not. It just seems a strange stick to beat this country with - yes they might kill people but they follow a process.

I hope we do follow our process to the letter of the law. And I hope she goes to prison. For a long time.

 

Thanks for the clarification James.

I think that the UK does a lot right, especially when compared with other countries. We have a legal system to be proud of. However, in my very humble opinion, the Home Office is not fit for purpose, and seems to see itself as above the law. Whether that's the Windrush shambles, or the bizarre actions of the Home Secretary in the Begum case.

Just to give you another illustrative situation which has affected me personally - Russia is a much maligned country in the media. Much of the stick it gets is completely warranted, but a lot of it isn't. For me, as a non-Russian citizen married to a Russian and with a child who holds a Russian passport, if I want to get Russian residency there's a lot of finicky bureaucracy, a fee of about 70 quid, and a virtually guaranteed positive answer, due to my right to a family life under both Russian and international legislation. Russia completely abides by its obligations, and does not make it financially punitive for people to live with their families. However, if my wife, mother of a UK citizen wishes to come and live in Britain? Thousands of pounds in unjustifiable fees, having to live apart from her husband and child for six months while to application is processed, and unusually high financial thresholds to pass by way of income or savings for the average person. All of this wouldn't be quite so hard to stomach if the rules were actually adhered to, but so many people receive refusals on technicalities, due to lost documents, or just to tick a box to meet a target that we genuinely can't be bothered to go through it all.

You may argue that the UK is a far more attractive proposition for people to try and gain entry by nefarious means than Russia, but actually there are a huge number of sham marriages where people from the poorer ex-Soviet states try to get Russian residency. A Russian passport is as much of a holy grail for the average person from Tajikistan or Uzbekistan as a UK passport is for an Indian or Nigerian.

So while I'm not looking for a stick to beat the UK with, quite the opposite, I will never shy away from highlighting where I think we're going wrong.

 

Yes, we are far from perfect in this country but I would think a conviction in this country (or any in Western Europe) would be safer than you would see in a country like Bangladesh or Sri Lanka.

Just as a massive aside, but have you ever seen the YouTube channel of Bald and Bankrupt? It's a British bloke who is obsessed with the USSR, so he travels to places that have either retained their soviet influence like Belarus or countries which have struggled since the break up like Moldova. He doesn't go to places like Moscow, St Petersburg or Odessa. Speaks fluent Russian too. Very interesting and entertaining.

 

Cheers for the heads up, I'm just watching his Moldova video now. Very interesting. Though I might be giving Chisinau a miss! I've been to plenty of Russian backwaters which all look like that, but tend to avoid the local winos if possible, whereas he seems to genuinely enjoy hanging out with them! His Russian is very decent, especially considering it sounds like he's learnt most of it through conversing with people on his travels.

 

I would actually be very interested in visiting a place like that but I suppose that once you've had a look around the options for entertainment are pretty limited. Anyway, I'll stop derailing the thread now!

 

Feel free to PM me if you do decide you want to go on a Soviet adventure!