EU Elections

I don't understand any of the opposition to a 2nd referendum. If the majority of the country still want to leave they will win it again. If the majority of the country now want to remain, that proves asking again was the right thing to do. It's too important an issue not to make sure.

 

It reinforces the stereotype some hold - that it's a town full of thick, foreigner-hating, insular morons.

 

If remain win should we do best of 3?

 

Exactly my point!!
Anyone can twist and manipulate stats to suit an agenda

 

Yup, which goes to show the issues, no one actually knows what’s best, only opinions.

 

No. The point you seem to be making is that the fact that the Brexit party could not command more than 31% of the vote is irrelevant because 40% of the electorate didn't vote. Therefore no conclusion can be drawn from the figures.
Ok, if you want it that way then, similarly, no conclusion can be drawn from the referendum vote.

 

Labour offer nowt, its let us all down, as the Conservative Party crumbles, its failed to develop a Policy in 3 yrs that could've united the Party and the Country. This Country's still great, and with a good Leader any Party could win the next Election.

 

No, we would remain in the status quo ... but if in the future (i.e. next general election) there was a movement for a 3rd referendum then so be it ... have a third referendum. Democracy doesn't stand still.

I know that as a member of the EU we aren't allowed to sign our own trade deals but surely we can go out and find out what they might look like if we did leave. Would lead to a much more informed choice.
As it stands we are talking about jumping of a cliff with no idea of what's at the bottom ...

 

The reason to have another vote is the length of time which has elapsed since the last one. The whole leaving mullarkey is also a different kettle of fish to what people thought at the time. I don't think the full difficulties and consequences were appreciated by anyone.

 

Having read quite a few interviews with him (worthwhile as he is usually outspoken), having dealt with the banking crisis in 2008, he is motivated by concerns at the eurozone debt crisis as a ticking timebomb. As an indication the US federal reserve (who were asked and refused to help) reckoned it took 1.2 trillion dollars to prop the euro up after the Greek default. Italy is currently running at 133% of debt against GDP and have had an anti-austarity budget blocked by the EU. On top of that the ECB have engaged in wholesale quantitative easing. I agree with him that a new financial crash in the eurozone is a real possibility and if we are still in the EU we'd be helping to pick up the tab

 

How about British Steel last week? Brexiteers seem to ignore big red warning signs like that.

Needs to be another referendum in my opinion - voters were sold a pipe dream 3 years ago and we're driving off a cliff just to save face. It'll likely be a No Deal vs Remain choice.

We might vote to leave again, and if we do fair enough. Still think it'd be the wrong decision, but at least they'd have a clear pair of options.

 

There's a lot more detailed analysis to be done before any side can claim a victory from these results, my suspicion is that it will probably be demonstrating a potential for a rough 50/50 split in a second referendum and possibly another hung parliament in a GE.
The declared results so far show unambiguous Leave Parties polled 5,884,832
unambiguous Remain polled 6,702,963.
What is clear is that the Brexit Party took the bulk of the Tory and UKIP vote, and that the Lib Dems and Greens took huge chunks out of Labour.
The unknowns that make predicting anything difficult are,
A) Ascertaining where the 2,346,441 Labour voters, and 1,510,874 Conservative voters
( who stayed loyal to their parties ) would come down in a second referendum.
B) The numbers of EU Citizens that voted...according to the 3million.org website 3,500 EU citizens have made a complaint, but no one seems to know how many actually did vote.
C) Turnout was highest in the expected Remain areas, with Leave areas being down on the 2014 turnout...all turnouts were much lower than the 2016 Referendum.

The potential General Election though leaves both the major parties with a real headache.
These elections were basically PR...a GE is first past the post.
Labour and the Tories will not horsetrade seats with anyone, the Lib Dems may think they've done well enough not to but the Greens probably will.
If the Brexit Party decide to only target Labour and Tory remain seats it could well change the makeup of Parliament significantly in favour of Leave, but hung in party terms.

 

I think Corbyn keeping his powder dry and allowing the Tories to dig their own grave was a sensible idea. Problem is, he's waited too long to fill the bloody hole in..
I think JC is still Euro sceptic, rightly in many ways & his vote is as valid as anyone's, if he wants out.
But now the state of the wicket is clear, he has to get behind a second vote.
That, dear friends, IS democracy. The opportunity to make an informed choice, based on actual information, not the hateful bullsh1t offered up by Boris, Farage & the like...
I didn't vote last time, indecision brought about by lack of real information & disgust on how the campaign was conducted, by both sides, but mainly leave.. I'm a remainer now, of course.
Farage is an embarrassing disgrace of an Englishman. To campaign for representation in an institution he despises is a damaging & ridiculous waste of everyone's time & resources.
At least the overall consensus is to remain, in theory...

 

Leave voters opposed to a 2nd referendum seem to have the same level of logic as a child refusing to get up on Christmas day because they already had their presents last year.

Why would you not want a final say on what an EU exit will actually look like when it was all speculation in 2016? It's not a 'betrayal' of the nation but a more informed public vote, unlike the last one which was based on unknowns, spurious suppositions and fantasy.

It seems some people are more bothered about 'being right' than they are about logically considering the nation's position in Europe.

 

That's what worries me. I think many leave voters might have abstained, simply because the election concerned an institution which they don't want any part of. Which is fair enough..
I voted specifically for a remain endorsement. Which I believe most people of that opinion certainly did.
So any attempt to analyse the turnout & results is inevitably flawed on both sides..

 

No the point I was making, was you originally claimed last nights results showed people wanting to leave slipping, and I said that result doesn’t show that as there are too many other factors, the lack of voters being one of them.
As I have said all through stats can be manipulated to suit, you are doing that by your original claim, I’m not claiming either way just that your claim doesn’t f@ctor everything in.

 

British steel were bought by grey bear capital for £1 in 2016 after the steel industry collapsed in the face of Chinese subsidised steel being dumped. The EU (to which we surrender our trade policy) did nothing to help. In fact it stops state aid in such circumstances. Belgium gave aid to its steel industry and was fined £250,000,000 by the EU for doing so. Btw grey bear are french (so under EU law we can't stop them) have charged British steel exhorbitent fees and loan interest. Other British companies they have bought and "helped" include comet and monarch airlines.

 

Possibly one of the best arguments for another vote/say I have read.
The problem is as said on another post, there are still no actual facts of what will and won’t happen still opinions, this leaves both sides with opportunities to poke holes in each case and often results in degenerating into name calling etc.
However I would be all for once an agreement is made in Parliament, the facts of the deal presented (not what might happen), presented and then a yes or no vote to the public.

 

A puerile illogical argument.

 

If it took as long for the winning party in a general election to take their seats in Parliament as it is taking to complete the Brexit vote how many people would now want the tories out following an upcoming third change in leadership ?