Nigel Farage and the abolition of the NHS

your national health insurance is to pay for your old age pension and another other benefits you may need during your lifetime, it is not for the NHS, this is paid for out of tax revenue,

 

Thanks for the info, I actually never realised this. Makes sense, though.

 

No that's not the case
If a homeless person was knocked over and taken to a hospital then he or she would receive critical care treatment.
Ambulance people do not ask unconscious people who are dying if they have healthcare insurance, nor do a and e doctors or nurses: they treat them.
(My sister lives in Tenessee by the way).

 

most folks think that national insurance contributions are for the NHS

 

I said at the time of the referendum that the law of "unintended consequences" would result in the privatisation of the NHS following Brexit. It was confirmed by Woody Johnson, the US Ambassador and close friend of Trump, in an interview yesterday that in the event of 'no deal' US health contractors would require access to NHS privatisation as part of a future trade deal.

 

If you earn over 25k and you're fully fit. If you have a pre existing condition you'll probably find a refusal to insure you or only at ridiculous prices.
A purely insurance based healthcare system is fine unless you actually get ill.
Obamacare hasn't been repealed in the US. The Republicans and Trump were desperate to get rid of it because Obama introduced it (two party tribalism again) but were unable to come up with a better alternative.

 

I agree with everything you've said there churton and your sentiments echo mine and to be honest,even tho i'm a leaver and you are not i'd hazard a guess that on most other things political there's very difference between us

 

You're probably right. I think there is a large percentage either side of the brexit issue that are separated by not that much., ie the extent of political union. I'm suspicious of it going too far myself but would rather influence from within.
Anyway, we'll not poke that sore today, lol.
3 weeks and next season's fixtures are out!

 

I blame both. Farage is not quite the moron that Trump is but he's not far off. How such a vile individual gets any credence in this country is beyond me.
Pint supping man-o-the-people ? my arse!!

 

Trust me, i'm not advocating for a purely insurance based system.

And Obamacare has been repealed in all but name, I personally have good friends that are self employed and now unable to afford the insurance. with Obamacare it cost them about $200 a month, with $500 deductible, whereas this year it would have been $600 a month, with the same deductible. Their circumstances haven't changed, but the goalposts have.

 

Read Exile's post again

 

Don’t forget NI doesn’t just pay into NHS it also pays into Pensions etc, so just shows how high profits for private schemes must be if they are on par

 

Just thought I'd throw this into the debate.

I 100% agree that the American system of totally private sector insurance based healthcare is an abomination given the number of people who are made bankrupt by it or cannot afford cover in the first place.

However on the other side of the coin... 'Free healthcare' as the NHS is sometimes described as, doesn't exist. It has to be paid for somehow through taxation. NI contributions and general taxation.

It is about efficiency how much bang for the buck you get and importantly ensuring we do NOT simply line the pockets of private concerns at the expense of the taxpayer. Private hospitals / treatment paid for by wealthy individuals prepared to pay over and above their normal taxation/NI adds to the capacity so should not be derided.

Italy's healthcare system is a regionally organised National Health Service (Servizio Sanitario Nazionale, SSN) that provides universal coverage largely free of charge at the point of delivery. ... Inpatient hospital care is delivered through a network of hospitals, which can be either public or private institutions.
The healthcare system is funded through income taxes (national) and VAT (regional). The healthcare providers are financed through fixed allowances (from central and regional governments) and by a DRG-like reimbursement system. General practitioners are paid by the SSN.Healthcare spending in Italy accounted for 9.2% of GDP in 2012 (about $3,200 per capita) of which about 77% is public, slightly lower than the average of 9.3% in OECD countries. (UK is about 9.8% GDP)

In reality in Italy, the above means paying capped amounts (subsidised heavily for treatments and tests e.g. Colour ultrasound scans 60 euros, blood tests ranging from 25-70 euros (these are carried out by private laboratories treatment centres feeding back into the health service). A friend diagnosed with cancer paid an upfront fee of around 200 euros but that covered initial diagnosis, scans, consultancy fees, chemo, radiotherapy, wig post operative care etc.
People are responsible for keeping their own medical records records which they carry with them to hospital visits.
overall there are many positives.

• No appointment needed to see a GP just turn up and sit in waiting room (longest I have ever waited is 30 minutes)
• No time limit on consultancy they will spend as long as they need (hence above 30 mins when the patient before me was in the surgery for about 25 minutes)
• Scans, blood tests hospital appointments usually, with a few exceptions, take days/few weeks rather than months) I went to my GP with what I thought was a rash on my leg at Tuesday evening surgery and by Friday the same week I had had a scan, diagnosis by consultant (thrombosis) , treatment directions given to GP prescription given and collected from pharmacy and was taking Clexane injections.
• The consultants doctors and GPs are highly trained and the equipment levels are 'State of the Art' scanners etc.
• The screening programs (preventative medicine) e.g. Breast cancer mass screenings are commonplace too.
• Pharmacies do take up a lot of the strain from GPs as many people go to them as first (and often the only) PoC.

The downside is whilst prescriptions are usually FOC & some do carry a small charge and none prescription common medicines like Paracetamol and creams and ointments like hydrocortisone (for insect bites etc) are very expensive. You can ONLY buy from Pharmacies not supermarkets etc. so it is a monopoly

Overall though, the Public/Private hybrid system works well here especially given the % ageing population who are prone to mild hypochondria. Not sure how sustainable it is though given the mess Italy is in financially.

 

As I see it we have one simple solution to providing effective healthcare (inclusive of care for the elderly) - we must pay more meaningful tax.
Successive governments of both colours have progressively cut direct taxation for the last 30 years because they think it is a vote winner.
Hard to swallow it may be, and effective taxation of the so called super rich is another argument, but if we want a "better" level of care we have to meet it from the public purse.

 

Not quite true that no NI goes to NHS..
General taxation funds about 80% of the budget, and National Insurance contributions cover most of the rest. Total NI contributions to the NHS in 2017/18 were estimated to be just under £24 billion, which is just under 20% of the total budget

 

When I pay the income tax - employers NI and individual NI bill - it all comes out in one cheque.

Ask your payroll dept. - It all goes out in one lump.

NI is just another form of income tax.

A tax on the waged that doens't get levied on the unwaged - like final salary scheme pensioners and independently wealthy. In effect - therefore - pretty much everyone who gets paid PAYE pays about 50% tax on their earnings over the tax free allowance regardless of income.

This idea that theres a lower tax and a higher rate of tax is pretty much ****** aimed at conning us poor people into thinking richer folk are taxed more than we are.

About time this got sorted out as well.

 

There is also the money-go-round when it comes to Govt projects/costs.. they quote, say, £1b for a project but the company that gets that contract pay corporation tax, NI contributions. Employees pay tax on wages, VAT on money spent on goods/services .. suppliers of said goods services pay corporation taxes rates NI etc . I bet most of it ends up back in the coffers of the treasury in some or or another. The only 'leakage' of money printed is offshore accounts, money spent by retired expats like me (a drop in the ocean) and international financial market trading. Also payments on imports (offset to a large extent by exports). So in reality a taxpayer funded govt project with a headline 'cost' of £1bn is probably a fraction of that in the long term.

 

Exactly.

 

The 0.01p in the pound it costs to treat foreigners is going to save the NHS from being sold off by this corrupt Tory Government is it? Tell you what why not fall for the Tory trick of blaming everyone, particularly non UK nationals for the mess they have made. The NHS is the best in the world, by far superior to the US system Farge wants to bring in. Who would benefit from the US system none other than Farages financer Arron Banks and the Tory MPs who have interests in Private health care.