Just for giggles... Where are you at the mo?

I’m sick and tired of people saying people didn’t know what they voted for, don’t underestimate people s intelligence.

 

The most popular UK daily newspaper is The Sun.

 

The people's decision can only possibly be altered by the people confirming or changing their view. Nothing else flies. But whereas we were asked to vote about a fantasy undeliverable version of Brexit that didn't exist, we should be given the right to vote for what we now know it entails. It's not a second referendum, it's a first referendum on the real facts.

 

If it disappeared from the news I doubt many of the public would give a s**t either way.

 

You’re forgetting the endless anti-EU marches and protests that took place the length & breadth of the country in the years leading up to the referendum.

 

Singularly, the worst ever interpretation and understanding of how parliament & democracy actually works. Bravo.

 

Boris couldn't give a sh*t about whether we leave or stay ... 'leave' is just a more convenient path to power for him. He's not a man of conviction, never has been, surely you can see that.
Boris cares about Boris .... not democracy, not his party & certainly not the people of this country. A poor man's Donald Trump. Same vacuous statements, same lies ... same empty promises not based in reality.

 

He’d vote for a party that sent truncheons and horses against his fellow miners shows what sort of person he is .

 

Right, so is a soft brexit (staying within the SM/CU), a 'Norway' style brexit, a 'Canada' style brexit an a no deal brexit all the same thing then? All of these were touted as being what we would get. In reality we didn't know what we were voting for and we still don't. It's nowt to do with intelligence, it's about the dishonesty of those offering the choice.

 

When were they?

 

That was my point! Nobody gave a flying fu.ck about ‘the EU’ until 2016. As long as they could get a full English in Benidorm and some cheap fags on the way home, all was well. All the ‘leave means leave’, ‘wi shud just gerrart’ brigade weren’t kicking off about ‘the EU’ until their sh.itrags persuaded them they should be.

 

Negotiate Norway plus hold 2nd Ref home before the chippy shuts.

 

That's because when questioned why, the four or five blokes who keep banging the Brexit Drum on here clearly have no idea. They simply cannot reply with any sensible reasons and resort to soundbites from The Sun and Mail.

There's one poster on here (sorry ive forgot your name) who is pro Brexit who made some decent points and had a sound opinion as to why he voted Leave. I disagreed with him, but he put his points across very well.

The rest of you just say 'leave means leave' and for some reason are putting faith in a party led by a bloke, who once he has gotten what he wants, will royally bend over the people of the North of England (not just Barnsley) and totally **** us.

Can I ask why you voted out?
Can I ask why you are placing your trust in Boris Johnson?
Can I ask what good you think he will do for the area?
Can I ask what it is specifically about the EU you don't like?

 

I try my best to avoid politics and religion as it never ends well but here we go.

Can I ask why you voted out?
Two main principled reasons but with lots of minor reasons as well.
1 I don't like unelected councils/commissions, I have the same opinion of the the house of Lords either and think it should be adjusted maybe something like jury service that you have to do for a year.
2 We as a nation (well successive governments) believe that devolution of power is good thing, with regional assemblies and parliaments (I'm on the fence with these until we create one for London and the North as they have as much right as Scotland and Wales, but not sure where we draw there line there needs to be agreed criteria), I do support devolution of power to local parishes and communities (with the oversight, to stop people being too stupid, and to pick the best ideas and share them) so logically I follow that through that we should not have a European central government which is where it was/is heading with a single currency, army etc. We should leave control "locally". If Greece were not in the Euro they could have devalued the Drachma, adjust their interest rates, and they'd be in a lot stronger position now(i know its not that simple...) That then follows that we should leave the EU and revert back to its original principles which were fantastic, of free trade, improving standards and helping people, unfortunately its got a little lost along the way.
Can I ask why you are placing your trust in Boris Johnson?
Who says people are, but hes in charge and saying he going to do what was chosen.
Can I ask what good you think he will do for the area?
Im not sure that he will, that said hes a smart guys and surrounds himself with people who know more about things than he does, I see him as more of a random idea generator, then other take over.
Can I ask what it is specifically about the EU you don't like?
I think I've covered this above. I love the idea struggle with the implementation. I've felt this since studying the Conman Agricultural Policy at school over 20 years ago!

 

A fair and well written response.

As I said above, I've not necessarily got any issues with people who can express their views in a well thought out manner, whatever they may be.

It's the empty kettles all over this board that basically repeat LEAVEMEANSLEAVEWEWONLOL over and over again, whilst the country slowly circles the drain.

 

Whilst I disagree with the majority of what you say ... Respect for actually voicing it in something other than the usual un-substantive phrases like 'take back control' which when inspected are meaningless.

Just a quick point if I may

• I don't think anyone in the EU is un-elected. No we didn't each vote for the individual EU representatives, but they were elected by the people that we did vote for. In much the same way that we don't vote for a Home Office minister or the Leader of the Tory party (the PM). Just going on the Brexit negotiations alone it's hard to deny that they made a much better job of it than our elected officials ... I know who I would rather have doing trade talks on my behalf with Donald Trump

The system isn't perfect but for me the benefits far outweigh the negatives. I'm not really that bothered to be honest who the officials at the EU are so long as they do a good job. (not sure I'm best qualified to make a selection even if given a choice). It seems to me that on the whole the EU do a very good job. Can't think of anything that they have done that I believe to be outrageous/incompetent ... can you? In the current world political climate I'd much rather be part of a large trading block when trying to deal with the likes of Russia/USA/China than getting the rubber glove treatment when dealing with the likes of Trump on our own. For me it defies logic to think you can get a better trade deal as a representative of 75M people than you could as a representative of 700M.

So I guess in the end, for me it comes down to a choice between economic prosperity vs the right to have slightly more say (possibly) in the people making decisions.
Don't understand why anyone would take the huge gamble. No one can say for certain what will happen if we leave (indications are that economically it wouldn't be good). however, while not perfect right now the UK is in a pretty good place. If someone said to me "you have a nice house, but if you were to cash it in and then bet that money on a horse, there is a chance that you could end up up with a better house with an extra bedroom" I don't think I'd follow their advice.

 

There’s plenty of empty kettles on here that keep a smug arrogant belittling and in some cases a down right nasty attitude to anyone who doesn’t share the same opinion of them.

 

Both @sadbrewer and @deparker clearly know why they voted leave and argue there case well. There are a lot of numpties though.

 

I

I’ve said why I won’t vote for Corbyn, apparently its all right wing media lies. I’ve said I oppose our laws being made by the eu, apparently they inly make laws on food additives. I’ve explained how we can’t control immigration owing to freedom of movement, I’ve shown how immigrants from Europe can and do come here to access our generous welfare state. Each time av been challenged by remainers who believed the opposite, which kind if suggests this nonsense of not knowing what brexiteers are voting for actually works both ways. Oh, and av been called a nazi when donny red lost it cos ad proved i was right. Its pointless carrying on cos neither side wants to listen to the other, fact is it looks like remain are going to keep us in the eu. All i will say is that you've made your bed.

 

I fundamentally don't disagree with you on the EU its a long way from perfect, yet its not terrible and does a lot of good. I do also think that a lot of the good thats happened would have been done with or without the EU. I dont like the way that its been heading a slow creep to more central control.

As an aside we don't have to leave the EEA when we leave the EU its just assumed that we will, it like saying we are leaving NATO too the EU and EEA are different things, but get mixed up.

With regards to the EU being unelected...

...Now I may have this all wrong but my understanding is that we all vote for MEP (great) who go and represent us at the EU Parliament (again great so far). They have legislative power(great), so do the EU council; but they both need to go to the Commission to pass any laws. It is the Commission that are unelected (i have the same problem with the house of lords). The Commission have to swear an oath to the EU not its members or the member states but to the actual organisation and they have to do what is best for the organisation, not what is best for it members. I do understand that most of the time these goals are aligned, but not always.