No Deal Brexit

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Red Rain, Sep 5, 2019.

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  1. man

    mansfield_red Well-Known Member

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    What "ulterior motives"?
     
    mansfield_red, Sep 6, 2019
    #61
  2. Dan

    DannyWilsonLovechild Well-Known Member

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    People in London voted to remain. So you leave, we'll stay... we're all happy, yes?
     
    DannyWilsonLovechild, Sep 6, 2019
    #62
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  3. Micky Finn

    Micky Finn Well-Known Member

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    Thrupenny bits.
     
    Micky Finn, Sep 6, 2019
    #63
  4. TitusMagee

    TitusMagee Well-Known Member

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    Haha yeah of course you are :rolleyes:! Funny that the moment you are hit with facts you walk away from it. Why get into the debate in the first place if it is a pointless argument? Must just be a huge coincidence ;)
     
    TitusMagee, Sep 6, 2019
    #64
  5. Micky Finn

    Micky Finn Well-Known Member

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    ‘Ulterior’..... What, like preserving jobs, stopping industries from collapsing and probably saving lives?? Ulterior like that?
     
    Micky Finn, Sep 6, 2019
    #65
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  6. Micky Finn

    Micky Finn Well-Known Member

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    (.....adds another name to list....)
     
    Micky Finn, Sep 6, 2019
    #66
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  7. TitusMagee

    TitusMagee Well-Known Member

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    TitusMagee, Sep 6, 2019
    #67
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  8. Brush

    Brush Well-Known Member

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    The backstop is at least partly intended to prevent the return of the troubles which may resurface as a result of a hard border between Ulster and the Republic. The troubles have never truly gone away but continue to simmer largely out of sight with both sides looking for any reason to resume open hostility, a hard border would be just what they are waiting for.
     
    Brush, Sep 6, 2019
    #68
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  9. Stephen Dawson

    Stephen Dawson Well-Known Member

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    They need Adam Gilchrist he was a decent backstop.
     
    Stephen Dawson, Sep 6, 2019
    #69
  10. Sco

    Scoff Well-Known Member

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    No they didn't. Parliament voted to allow May to trigger A50 at the time of her choosing. They didn't vote to trigger it. Small, but subtle (and important distinction).
     
    Scoff, Sep 6, 2019
    #70
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  11. Wat

    Wathred Active Member

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    Ok for semantics,
    "MPs have voted by a majority of 384 to allow Prime Minister Theresa May to get Brexit negotiations under way.

    They backed the government's European Union Bill, supported by the Labour leadership, by 498 votes to 114"

    Article 50 stated we would leave the EU with or without a withdrawal agreement on the exit date.

    Now, I accept things change and I accept the argument that there are genuine concerns about a No Deal Brexit......I am not arguing that we should have a No Deal by preference but there is no other deal which parliament has agreed or seemingly will agree to. I just feel taking No Deal off the table has seriously weakened our negotiating position.
     
    Wathred, Sep 6, 2019
    #71
  12. Farnham_Red

    Farnham_Red Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Farnham voted remain as well - and my MP (Jeremy Hunt) is willfully ignoring the wishes of his constituents His priorities are the reverse of what they should be ie Party before constituents or country.
    Of course if Farnham can remain and I keep my EU citizenship I would be delighted
     
    Farnham_Red, Sep 6, 2019
    #72
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  13. Dan

    DannyWilsonLovechild Well-Known Member

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    Lets start a movement! The London and Farnham EU republic! Now.... what can we make the walls from, and how do we travel between the two? Maybe elon musk can help...
     
    DannyWilsonLovechild, Sep 6, 2019
    #73
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  14. Farnham_Red

    Farnham_Red Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Why do you feel that? Most international trade negotiators have spent time pointing out that the way international deals work is by finding mutually beneficial arrangements to both parties.

    The EU wants to have a trade deal with us - they have put together a strategy - based on the red lines that Teresa May defined ( unilaterally I might add) and made significant compromises - in particular around allowing the whole UK to remain in the customs union until the Irish border issue is resolved - that was OUR proposal.

    They have red lines of their own, they dont want us to leave with no deal as its not good for them and in particular for Ireland but they have valid reasons why if the UK is outside the customs union the crossing of goods over the border has to be managed.

    Try and see it from the EU's point of view - they negotiated in good faith and agreed a deal with the Prime Minister - its not their fault that the PM didnt have parliament behind her - that is most definitely down to the PM and the cabinet (which included Boris Davies Raab etc)

    Now they see a change of PM to someone who hasnt so far presented any serious proposal to them - they wont allow us to just remove the backstop for 2 reasons - first it means they lose control of an external border, and second they dont believe in any case it will get approval - the ERG will still vote it down.

    I think they are losing patience with us - we have no exit strategy and to say we will jump off a cliff if you dont agree to our (as yet unknown) demands is no way to negotiate - they will just tell us to go ahead and jump
     
    Farnham_Red, Sep 6, 2019
    #74
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  15. Micky Finn

    Micky Finn Well-Known Member

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    Utter nonsense. It's this myth that has fuelled Johnson's farcical tenure as PM to date. We're selling 'no deal' as this nuclear option that we can unleash on the EU if they don't roll over; they're just shrugging and saying 'crack on then', having prepared properly for that suicidal eventuality. Oh sure, they'd prefer a settled agreement, but doubt they'll lose much sleep over no deal. Relatively minor impact for them and certainly not worth tearing up everything else for. As bargaining chips go, it's a really, really **** one.
     
    Micky Finn, Sep 6, 2019
    #75
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  16. Wat

    Wathred Active Member

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    It is because the negotiated deal has been rejected by Parliament and we need another. We now either have to accept a new deal proposed by the EU on their terms or try and get May's deal through. If the EU felt that No Deal was an option and as you rightly point out, is equally bad for them and not what they want, then they are more likely to compromise. They gave us more time to come back with proposals, so they knew, regardless of change of PM, the negotiated deal was a dead duck. Now, they are less likely to consider them....that is my point.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 6, 2019
    Wathred, Sep 6, 2019
    #76
  17. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

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    Are you seriously suggesting that 27 countries are equal to our 1 ?
    The EU will not want to upset us and keep us on board but not at any price to just give us what you and Boris etc wants .
    Why had the Brexiteers got this notion that 27 countries will bend over backwards to let us leave ?
    Whatever we get will not be as good as being a member full stop .
     
    Marlon, Sep 6, 2019
    #77
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  18. Fon

    Fonzie Well-Known Member

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    I live in Wath. I voted remain.

    I'm very happy with John Healey. Luckily he's got half a brain and is acting on the behalf of his constituents.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2019
    Fonzie, Sep 6, 2019
    #78
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  19. Tarntyke

    Tarntyke Well-Known Member

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    Bey your’re former other half wasn’t rubbing her hands in their with the thought of marrying marry Trump though?
     
    Tarntyke, Sep 6, 2019
    #79
  20. Farnham_Red

    Farnham_Red Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    But we haven't got any proposals - there is nothing for them to agree to. They already said if Boris can come up with a sound proposal to remove the backstop they will consider it - but he hasn't and cant because there isn't one he can propose that works at the moment.
    The best Boris will come up with is Mays deal with the Backstop removed and the EU wont agree to that even if we say we will leave with no deal.

    By the way can you explain to me why our MP's can on one hand say we will be fine if we leave with no deal when 50% of our trade is with the EU but the EU is supposed to be panicking at the prospect when their trade with the UK is 8% of their total

    let me say that again 50% of our trade is with the EU and 8% of the EU's trade is with us
    - who do you think will see the biggest difference in the case of no deal. If we don't need to worry about no deal the EU can hardly be quaking at the prospect.
     
    Farnham_Red, Sep 6, 2019
    #80
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