DEMOCRACY BETRAYED

BASIC I think? Yonks since I did any programming!

 

Could be, that bit of code would probably successfully compile in either....

 

Like a lot of voters you think that your mp only carry out the will of his voters, if you check, his first loyalty is to the country and it’s best interests, not his constituents, so like a lot of sane people he thinks a no deal brexit could well bankrupt the country, do untold damage to our manufacturing base, and leave us virtually bankrupt, so if that is what you want, vote brexit party, because they don’t give a toss of the ramifications of leaving without a deal

 

Yep, BASIC.

 

Well. I posted the thing from Raheem Kassam - so I guess I was agreeing with it. In which case your comment was about my opinion. Who has got the higher horse now? I do know how Prime Ministers are elected, and am aware of the deliberate use of the fact as propaganda...Yes I am seriously suggesting that a Ballot Paper should contain options - perhaps not details. Like a) Not leave at all b) Leave without further negotiation - that would cover most bases. I do understand the nature of Mr Jarvis' position as my Member of Parliament. It is obvious that he cannot represent all single views - but we are talking about a majority of his constituents here. Your talent for being patronising is really remarkable and precludes my offering any sort of apology.....

 

So, you mean a ballot paper where people could vote for the negotiated deal against the status quo? - A bit like, some national vote for the people to confirm the decision? Perhaps calling it a peoples vote?

And as for Dan Jarvis, if he perceives that Leaving the EU (without a deal) will have a negative effect on the UK, then it is his duty to vote against it. If he (or any other MP) perceives that the negotiated deal is worse than the deal we have now, then it is his duty to vote against that too. The same goes for every other MP - including those who stand to earn a large amount of cash through a crash out exit.

 

French saying they will not agree to another extension...(well unless instructed to by Germany)..

 

I find it incredible that after all this time some people are still pretending that their vote was cast with the intention of the UK crashing out of the EU without a deal despite the official Leave campaign and all ancillary campaigns all categorically stating that they would pursue a deal, a deal some prominent Leave supporters said would be the easiest deal in UK history.

There’s massaging reality and then there’s downright lying to save face because you voted on a whim and have been well and truly had by the political elite, disaster capitalists and by Facebook’s targeted adverts.

Why would anyone, especially someone from a town like ours, want to crash out of the EU and see local residents suffer the most? It’s complete nonsense.

 

They've a knack of that

 

I don't care to believe everything the jolly good old EU propaganda machine pumps out.. They have a history of forcing countries into complying with what they want ie re-running public votes. They have a habit of subsidising countries to move business out of the UK.

Where is your crystal ball and proof that our local residents will suffer most? Is it from the same experts backing the likes of George Osbournes emergency budget? Guess so.

 

This easy deal that was apparently never mentioned but actually was......let's say the EU really have done their damndest to make it difficult. How does that make the Leave campaigners look? Downright liars because they knew it wouldn't be easy? Or totally incompetent because they knew nothing at all about what the EU's stance would be?

 

I wouldn't blame them. Brings it to a head. In the best interest of the country, revoke A50, and set up a Royal Commission with leading brexiters to go away and come back with a legal, water-tight, positive way to take the UK out of the EU without trashing the economy, the GFA or killing people. This lets Parliament concentrate on normal matters - like how much more tax to add to our wages while giving the super-rich tax breaks and whether to invade Iran with Trump - while they do what Cameron should have told them to do 3 years ago.

Unfortunately, it will lead to a couple of weeks of arguments before they fall out with each other, but it would be the most calm period in the UK since 2016.

As for the Tories at the moment, I found this story from the past was very prophetic - https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/09/breaking-parliamentary-machine-lessons-1914-crisis

 

No, it’s from experts, economists and even Brexit Party candidates stating that it’ll take the UK economy circa 30 years to recover after leaving the world’s largest trading bloc. Further, as a northern town we are already on the back foot and severely lacking in central government funding. The town centre regeneration was funded in no small part by EU subsidies and grants.

 

In reality it should have been an easy task. What MP's should be voting on is the entire package. We do not need a withdrawal agreement with a backstop if we have already negotiated the trade deal etc beforehand. Therefore all it would take is to negotiate the whole affair at once. No backstop ever required etc. It is the EU red line of 'tell us how many billions you can line our trough with before we discuss trade' that is the cause of the deal not going through. Ridiculous stance, that approach should have been rejected by parliament from day 1.

 

And the EU subsidies came from? Oh yeah a top skimmed payment from UK taxpayer money.
If we as a country held our parliament to account and ensured that money was spent across the country in areas like Barnsley that problem goes away.
Tory and Labour governments are the ones to hold to account at the ballot box. Not towns like Barnsley though voting for Labour because they don't like the Tories. Not really worked well that. If we don't get the central government funding, vote them out.... Something we will never be able to do with the EU commission.

 

So ignoring all the stuff about the backdrop as I'm not going to even start on that.....your glorious leaders failed to foresee the EU's stance.
And I'm even allowing you the rubbish that they've been vindictive and predatory.

 

You’re more than entitled to your opinion and it’s good to listen to a completely opposite view once in a while. I read that in 2017 our net contribution was estimated at c£9bn but that doesn’t take into account the c£2.6bn in private research grants given directly by the EU to the UK private sector. If that’s deducted then the net contribution is below £7bn which I appreciate sounds a lot but that’s when read in isolation and not when considered alongside the multitude of benefits that the UK and its citizens have as a result of being members/citizens of the EU.

As a brief aside, I’m yet to read one credible argument which extols the virtues of leaving the world’s largest trading bloc in favour of trading solely on WTO which is akin to crashing out of the Premier League and winding up in the Conference North, which is essentially what crashing out results in.

 

The amount of people that say they want to leave the EU because it's run by a group of "unelected buereaucrats" to go and surrender to the mercy of the WTO which is run by a group of unelected buereaucrats, just blows my mind...

 

Nearly as barmy as suggesting the EU are a propaganda machine spouting lies and mistruths. I mean imagine if our unelected government ever did such a thing... or vote leave... or the oligarch owned non domicile media... or Farage... or..... *repeat to fade*