Tory lies and hate.

You bought shares in something that was already yours in the first place, you were duped. It was the lack of investment by the privatised power generating industry that caused the recent power outages. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49402296

 

sorry scoff i dont agree, the intial vote in 75 was simply leave or remain so there is no difference in this one and before you say the public knew full well there was to be further integration, no they did not, the common market was a simple trading block and that is what was on the table, nothing was mentioned about treaties like maastricht or lisbon and the eu parliament was unheard of.

many remain voters are of the opinion that leave voters voted in the way they did but subject to what kind of deal could be gotten, this in my experience is simply not the case,they knew full well that we could be severing all ties, the leading politicians could not have been more clearer, leave would mean leave , once in a lifetime oppotunity and no going back.

the only people peddling the idea that leave voters did not know wehat they were voting for are remain voters

I am not going to debate why we should or should not leave, we've gone over this countless times.

 

it's an odd situation when the 'losers' in an election or referendum state that the 'winners' didn't know what they were doing. Even more odd is the abuse aimed at the leavers on this site - none the other way.
(No one casting any vote in any election has been or should be asked 'do you know what you're doing')

What has surprised me in all this discussion is how little attention is paid to the way the EU actually works. Last week 1 (one) country out of the 27 member states blocked the inclusion of N. Macedonia into the EU.
Democratic decision???

 

Nar then Taff you voted to leave and when you voted to leave which way did you want to leave, on a no-deal Brexit ?, did you ever take into account the Irish Border and think about the good Friday agreement or the Border with Gibraltar and Spain. I will say some people that voted to leave did not know the complications leaving the E.U. entailed, they listened to people spouting off about Brexit who did not know themselves.

 

Thoght Germany was a progressive social democracy as well.

 

utc - you sort of prove my point. What right have you (and I'm asking this in the nicest possible way!) to question why I voted the way I did?
There is a hint of 'we know best' when the Remainers tell the Leavers they didn't know what they were doing because they listened to 'people spouting off.'
Now it may be that had I known about the Irish Border issue, Gibraltar and Spain etc I would still have voted to leave - would you have prevented me from doing that?
When you vote on Dec 12 no one is going to be outside the voting place asking you if you 'know what you're doing' before you're allowed to vote.
If you voted for the 'winning' party you'd be surprised if those in the 'losing' party started saying you didn't know what your doing.
If you voted remain - I accept and respect that.

 

That post says to me that you "didn't " know about the Irish border situation.

I voted remain and neither did I.

 

I think the point is that pretty much all who voted remain voted that way for the same reason - there wasn’t an no deal remain or remain with a deal!! A simple choice and for many a progressive one.
Those who voted leave ( and I was one) did so for a whole plethora of reasons. From the racists at one extreme to the Socialists, who wanted out of what they considered to be a pretty dire neoliberal approach to economics.
I voted leave because I thought it would lead to a break up of the UK (a good thing) and was willing to hold my nose and accept that put me with some pretty unpleasant individuals.
Incidentally, I do think we’re now in the death throes of the UK. So things will get better.

 

If the UK does leave the EU the people of Scotland will have a dilemma if and when it comes to an Independence Vote. If they vote to leave the EU they will have to apply to join the EU. This may take months to sort out. North Macedonia have spent the last 5 years getting their house in order re applying for EU membership - 26 countries willing to accept them - one country (France) said No. So they are not going to become members of the EU. (interestingly Russia is cosying up to N. Macedonia and offering them an Alliance)
If the UK are in the EU the Independence vote is more likely to be successful because Scotland will retain its EU membership.
But it mustn't be assumed that all those who vote SNP want Independence - some will want more powers to be devolved from Westminster.
As for Welsh Independence - it ain't going to happen!

 

Back to Tory bashing ....

The SUN editorial

Last week our streets were blocked by idiotic Europhile protesters, with zero sense of proportion or grasp of history, witlessly branding Boris Johnson a “dictator” orchestrating “a coup”.

Fast forward 24 hours

Boris Johnson sacks 21 Tory turncoats after they vote to block No Deal Brexit marking historic Conservative split

The 21 Tory rebels were all thrown out of the Conservative parliamentary party

Philip Hammond led the coup over his arch-rival Boris - and was accused by No10 aides of “interrupting” the PM and “chuntering”

Taking the whip off the group means they can’t stand again in an election as a Conservative candidate - effectively ending their political careers, losing their jobs, putting them, their parliamentary assistants, and their families and children on the dole.

(All for daring to stand up for their principles and not letting Dictator Boris drag the country over a no deal precipice)

Perhaps now they are on benefits they can all be “put down”?

By the way, nice to see the SUN acknowledging 16 million voters as “idiotic”…probably the same way as I view anybody who buys that rag

So it's all about trust, who do you trust more to look after the people of this country, whatever their ability or "social standing?"

 

Boris says Corbyn is taking sides with Russia, yet the Tory party has accepted over £1.8m from Russian Oligarchs, some with very close ties to Putin.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/da...led-russian-donors-have-stepped-tory-funding/

 

will we ever see the report into Russian Interference..... i think there is a very simple and damning reason why we haven't so far.

 

In other Tory vermin news, Craig Morley mistakes his town's most historic landmark to a castle 350 miles away, in Scotland. Then blames the gaffe on his "external agency". Rat

 

No point in debating in Barnsley - here's the next MP

 

Good debating there.....sort of proves my initial point....cheers !

 

No campaigning or manifesto needed. Intelligent viral marketing techniques a la Cambridge Analytics. Whoever can brainwash the population best will win. We have already seen it.

 

you say it like it only happens in Barnsley..... There are many areas across the country who blindly vote the same way every time. it was interesting that the labour manifesto of 2017 won universal praise when presented blindly without any preconceptions.

 

I've not heard that reason for someone to vote leave before to be honest, I'd be interested to know why you think it's a good thing for the UK to break up? Not criticising your approach just genuinely interested.

 

Says a lot about the opposition that doesn’t it ?