Improving our Defense

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Red Rain, Dec 18, 2019.

  1. Tyk

    Tyketical Masterstroke Well-Known Member

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    I thought you were going to ask about the relative merits of the 3-4 versus the 4-3 base defense. (Which in my opinion depends whether you’re playing mainly a run or a pass offense, and whether you have the talent at outside linebacker to consistently pressure the quarterback in a 3-4 system...)
     
  2. tosh

    tosh Well-Known Member

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    Neet!
     
  3. Don

    Donny-Red Well-Known Member

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    Then you need to change your language settings in Word to UK English
     
  4. JLWBigLil

    JLWBigLil Well-Known Member

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    You little tinker!:D
     
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  5. John Peachy

    John Peachy Well-Known Member

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    A different time admittedly & a different style of play, but Futcher had no pace when he joined us, but his forward thinking & positional sense more than compensated. TBH I'm not thinking of a player so old to have no pace, but the kids we have at the back have plenty, running around like headless chickens & being caught out of position is equally as much of an issue for me. For most of the rest of the season pitches will be heavy too, especially ours at Oakwell the way it is looking.
     
  6. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that our young headless chickens are bound to be caught out of position occasionally because of what they are being asked to do. They are also going to be tired by the end of games because of the distance they have covered, especially the full backs and those engaged in the press, and that will mean that we concede late in games. I don't think that our defence is as bad as everyone makes out it is, and if they were playing in a traditional 4-4-2 system, I don't think we would be conceding anywhere near as many goals. The problem is that everyone wants everything, goals when we attack, and clean sheets when we defend, and I am not sure that is possible on our budget.
     
  7. John Peachy

    John Peachy Well-Known Member

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    I personally think that we would do better defending deeper & catching teams on the break. The new manager has a clear style / formation he wants to play & our owners have employed him on this basis, so I expect us to largely go for the diamond formation, with occasional switch to the 4-3-3 we seemed to adopt vs QPR & the high press, much like under DS. Both do leave us somewhat open, but I think a bit of discipline in the back line could help a lot. I'm not totally convinced whatever we do we'll stay up, We are playing entertaining football, but being beaten most weeks knocks the stuffing out of supporters & players.
     
  8. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

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    From what I have seen of the diamond, it is far too complex to introduce mid season. It requires too much reading of the game by inexperienced young players. When in trouble you need to KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid. I don't think my heart will stand many more games like the last one, and to my mind, we brought it on ourselves by pressing so high and with so many players. You are bound to be short handed at the back if the coach tells 5 of the front 6 to press as much as they can.

    It sounds like 2 players might be our max in the January transfer window, but I would rather see those players bringing some sanity to our midfield rather than at the back, where you would see an immediate improvement if we changed the system ahead of them.
     
  9. John Peachy

    John Peachy Well-Known Member

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    Let's see, not losing key players, losing the deadwood & strengthening will be key. For me one of our 4 defenders messes up every game. Maybe a great holding player at the bottom of the diamond may help, but I'm hard pressed to see how strengthening our midfield beyond that will stop the flood of goals we are conceding.
     
  10. Dalestykes

    Dalestykes Well-Known Member

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    Improve the defence? By a Shackleton’s High Seat “they’re lovely” and put in on the penalty spot.
     
  11. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

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    I reckon that because of our systems and the midfield players within that system, opposition midfield players are getting more time and space in the area between 30 yards out and 15 yards out. What time and space equals is more time to read the movement of the forward players who are ahead of you and are making angled runs into the box so they are already moving before the defender can do so, and the run is angled in order to remain on-side. More time equals more time to read the run, more time hit the pass exactly into that forwards run and at a pace that makes your forward favourite to get on the end of it. If you do not assume that it was the last man in red who made an error, and look earlier in the move to find the reason for the goal, you will usually find a player who has more time than he should have making the final pass. If you then reason as to why that was, it is usually because our midfield players were not close enough, or that there were not enough of them to make the pass more difficult to execute.

    Unfortunately, having your midfield players prepared and in position to repel an attack often means that they are unable to support our own attacks as well, so the plan to reduce goals conceded also results in us scoring fewer goals as well. Hey, I would love for us to be entertaining, but that is not always possible when you are in a mess.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2019
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  12. jagzz88

    jagzz88 Well-Known Member

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    1 experienced centre half would do wonders.

    As we are Halme back in drop one of Anderson/Bambo, odour given a run of games at left back and Dougall sat in front of the defence.
     
  13. Brush

    Brush Well-Known Member

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    Any chance you could reconfigure your spell-checker to British English?

    Defence.
     
  14. Jak

    Jake The Red Banned Idiot

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    Our points gained since Struber arrived relevant to points accrued by relegation rivals suggests we will scrape ourselves out of bother, assuming the trend continues. If we improve still further, we will finish well clear.

    I know this kind of optimistic outlook is frowned upon but there you are.
     
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  15. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

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    Don't play such a suicidally high line, don't push our full backs so far forward and take Diaby out of the firing line until we can coach some positional sense into him and some mistakes out of him. To be replaced by Halme.

    Cavare and Pinnillos are clearly not in the managers plans so if we can somehow move those on we can get a couple of full backs in who are hopefully up to speed with Championship football.

    We also need someone to play at the base of the diamond. We needed a defensive midfielder before the season began and we still need one now. However, the squad is miles too big as it is so that will depend moving more players out.
     
  16. Durkar Red

    Durkar Red Well-Known Member

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    We could try the reverse of a goal / win bonus , dock their wages if they lose and concede goals
     
  17. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

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    I agree with most of that.

    There is little doubt that Diaby makes mistakes, at least 2 bad ones per game. The question is, should we be patient, work with him and hope that he eliminates those mistakes because I think a very good player lies behind those mistakes. As you will know, I am not happy with either the press or the diamond.
     
  18. Jack Tatty

    Jack Tatty Well-Known Member

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    Kevin Long might not be a bad shout. Still only 29 and only made one appearance for Burnley all season.
     
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  19. Jack Tatty

    Jack Tatty Well-Known Member

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    Or the Michael Douglas version from Falling Down-

    D-FENS
     
  20. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

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    Diaby has the raw materials but he's just too raw at the minute. I don't think he's learning anything because he's making the same mistakes again and again. I believe he needs the same approach as Marc Roberts who came back twice the player after time out of the side.

    I reckon to play the diamond effectively, both offensively and defensively, you need Cafu and Roberto Carlos as your full backs and we certainly haven't got those. I've never liked the system but it would be difficult to argue that we're not getting the most out of Brown and Chaplin who looked untouchable against QPR.
     

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