Now we're more properly reporting deaths

It's becoming more apparent what a mess we've made of our response

 

Whats the mortality rate v population density...

 

Scary.

 

What about all the deaths that have occurred in the home where no test has been done? No diagnosis?? I think it’s safe to say the true total is well north of the figures quoted today.

 

They are counting care home deaths IF the person had had a test (that could rarely be obtained). They are ignoring all the other deaths even if the doctor has put the virus as the cause of death on the death certificate. It doesn’t get more cynical or disgraceful that this!

 

Are you really surprised? They'll do anything to try to cover up their incompetence and lack of compassion. Nasty Party indeed.

 

They’re not ‘properly reporting deaths’


But nor are they pretending to be ‘Properly reporting’, they’ve simply added care home deaths where the patient has tested positive.

so the people dying without a test don’t count, and people who’ve tested positive who die at home don’t count.

and I’d suggest no other country has a completely perfect method of counting the deaths either, if anyone believes someone else is doing this perfectly every day I’d like to see the evidence to back that up.

there’s loads of issues to be attacking this government for, but they’re simply not fudging the death figures in order to deceive - they’re trying to report what is easy to count on a daily basis. The ONS death total gives a clearer idea of the death toll - but it’s not a simple total of CV19 deaths.

 

I'm sorry, but this just isn't true. The registrar records the place and cause of death - if they wanted to report deaths at home and in care homes they could, but they've chosen not to. If you're being kind, you could argue that's because there's a lag in collating data from registrars, so they started with hospital deaths because they're easier to collect.

There's absolutely no reason why deaths outside of hospitals can't or shouldn't be included as soon as they are recorded with the registrar, yet it's taken until today to bother reporting them.

 

Slight problem is that it isn’t possible for the doctors certifying death to say CV19 due to lack of testing

the best measure will be comparing deaths to the same period last year

I don’t think anything sinister is going on, it’s just very difficult to record with accuracy due to lack of testing.....which is a f uck up.

 

The ONS have been supplying ‘extra deaths’ info for weeks now, not just the care home deaths. they do it every week on a Tuesday.

However there’s still a boat load of issues as the death register data doesn’t appear to be in a uniform format. (below)

OTOH the daily hospital stats coming from PHE are relatively simple to collate - tested positive / deceased. Slightly less simple when deaths haven’t occurred in hospital because now you’re expecting the wider NHS to notify PHE or the Welsh / Scottish equivalent. That requires the creation of a manual counting process.

On to ‘all’ deaths that may be attributed to CV19, then things get very complicated. If someone’s not been tested, had very little contact with a health professional whilst critically ill and will almost certainly not have had an autopsy, the death certificate may indicate a respiratory disease, almost certainly not CV19 and possibly not as the ‘cause’ of death, because there’s a lack of hard evidence.

So if you listen to the ONS speak about the ‘CV19’ deaths, they’re still caveat-ed to the hilt.

far from it being simple - it’s an absolute nightmare and why if you look at the ‘excess deaths’ they’re a lot higher than even the highest ‘official’ CV19 deaths. And my belief is that when we look at the figures historically, we’ll count the number of excess deaths during this period. People might not all have died from CV19 but the measures to deal with it will also have added to deaths from heart attack, cancer etc.

 

I agree with everything you said, especially about the true impact of excess deaths.

But it doesn't change the fact that a clear and simple way of reporting a cohort of C-19 deaths has been wilfully ignored on the pretence that it is too complicated to do so. It simply isn't.

Admittedly that doesn't make understanding the bigger picture of deaths and their relation to the disease much easier.

 

You’ll have to explain your ‘simple method’, because it’s clearly so obvious I can’t see it.

 

It would be interesting (and I’m sure terrifying) to compare the number of all deaths so far this year with the average deaths in the first 4 months of 2015 - 2019. That would give a far truer number than those quoted above.

 

The ONS publish this - it’s quite a thing

 

See the Financial Times - approaching 50k deaths over the average for the last 5 years in the UK.

 

The FT are doing that.

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...nalfiguresondeathsregisteredinenglandandwales

There's a green button link to an excel spreadsheet,

Up to April, fairly consistent with previous years.

Most recent week 17th April is now double average. The death rate increase amongst the older section of the population give confirmation that they are less able to cope with the virus.

I prefer these kind of statistics to the daily hyperbole 'ooo death rates gone down or up'.

The increase in reported deaths in total for April to date (17th) is 26,000 it is reasonable to assume that these relate to the virus.

Let's not forget though that everyone of these numbers is in respect of a real person not just a statistic.

 

Add the deaths recorded by the registrar outside hospital to the published number of deaths, instead of choosing not to.

 

How are you attributing those deaths to CV19?

Are you happy to just count everyone that’s died?