10m now unemployed or on furlough

I've worked throughout, other than the 7 days I had to use from my annual leave as I had Covid-19. There's no way I could afford to live on statutory sick pay, I couldn't afford my rent. I haven't had a sick day since... I've never had a sick day.

My taxes from working throughout this time have been paying for those furloughed, in many cases the furloughed receiving more than I get in my wage. And the same is true for many who have had to work: shop assistants, post men and women, delivery drivers, warehouse workers, cleaners, hospital porters, auxiliaries and nurses. People who weren't furloughed, people who are necessary to keep the country going, people still paying taxes, people who have to work to afford rent and pay for food for their kids, and people having to put themselves in danger.

And the thanks we get from those furloughed? Endless abuse. Being called idiots for taking public transport to get to work when there is simply no other option. We're selfish and uncaring you say, as you sit at home, bank account swelling, eating biscuits and starting a new box set on Netflix.

"Don't open the schools! Our kids need protecting!" The schools have never closed. Teachers have worked the whole time, caring for children of key workers and the vulnerable. It's only your kids that are protected, the ones we're supporting, our kids are exposed.

I keep hearing this situation being compared to the sacrifices made during the war. Those sat at home genuinely believe it's them that are making those sacrifices. NO, you're fk*cing not. You're the pampered, the protected, the ones rich enough to afford to stay at home. Those on the front line, those in the trenches are the ones you abuse.

I have never before read such insular, self-absorbed, selfish, cowardly, disgusting bile in my entire life as I have read on this BBS in the last couple of months. There are people who I will never speak to again. People who better not ever be in my presence. I kid you not.

 

I see people celebrating being on furlough on social media. They're incredibly thick and/or short sighted. They'll be the first ones to go in the inevitable round of mass redundancies.

There was always going to be the possibility of jobs being lost to automation and technological development over the next decade or so, but this is going to force the issue. As well as the inevitable recession lockdown is already forcing employers to look at how technology can be used to streamline processes and will result in further job cuts. A lot of people are going to get fvcked, and I mean well and truly fvcked. Universal basic income may be required but won't happen under this government.

I think the economic damage and resulting loss of life is going to be catastrophic. We're fvcking this pandemic on 2 fronts - we locked down too late, meaning a longer lockdown was required and now the government has already fvcked it once they're scared of doing anything that can be spun as endangering lives and so are prevaricating and firing out mixed messages all over the shop.

I think that what we need to do is give clear guidelines on who needs to self isolate, trust them to do it and start relaxing the lockdown

 

I don’t know you, you are a stranger on the internet as I am to you. So far you have resorted to calling me a lovely person and a Tw@ so I hardly think you can claim the moral high ground

 

Between December 2014 and march 2015 there were 44,000 excess deaths due to the flu. (Office of National Statistics) That's more than so far have died from coronavirus. It wasn't news then and people did not lose their jobs. You could argue, of course, that if there had been no lock down there would have been many more covid-19 deaths - it's possible. However we are. in danger now of losing more lives from the lockdown than from the virus.

 

Are you saying the things I’ve mentioned don’t happen? Or is this a my cocks bigger than yours competition?

 

I'm not sure why we aren't moving to a situation where we continue to shelter and finance the vulnerable and allow the rest to begin a gradual return to normality albeit with measures against infection. I wonder if the delay in locking down has meant a longer period in lockdown?

 

Most definitely

 

I'd just like to say I'm ruling myself out as judge for that competition.

 

As long as exiled isn’t a eunuch he’s probably won

 

The things you've mentioned don't happen in progressive successful companies. If u genuinely know that they happen, rather than reeling off a hackneyed stereotype of the big bad bosses v the downtrodden abused worker, then I'd suggest those companies will fail to survive the next recession.

I think you're wrong, u think I'm wrong. I'm not into pointless willy waving so we can leave it there if u like.

 

It's not though, is it? Elderly and vulnerable are being shielded.

Ah yes, elderly, famously capable and willing to shop online.

I'm still waiting to hear your plan. Even if you disagree on the food aspect, how do they get care? How do you stop the hospitals from getting overloaded?

 

To be fair to him it does happen up and down the country so he's right. But you're also right in that proper successful forward thinking companies who care about their employees don't do it so really you're both right. His biggest problem was generalising that it happens everywhere and trying to tell you how it happens where you work. Sounds like you work for one of the good companies

 

I'm a bit confused by the overloaded hospitals bit.

How do the elderly get care? I'd spend the billions that are being used in furlough and business grants to instead fund the fast track training of a LOT of carers and also find them isolating too. Much like a care home in Sheffield which hasn't had a single case of covid-19 in it did.

I'd also allow the elderly to use a telesales method of grocery shopping. Thats a system that does work.

Now I'm not saying I've thought of all the details because I haven't but surely surely it should be explored and should be what we are striving for because to put it simply this lockdown is still killing of people. Old people who would not be getting covid-19 now if they were isolated properly. Our goal has to be protecting them

 

The things I’ve mentioned happen, I’ve seen it happen first hand. Not small companies either, high street names. Anyhow I accept the terms of your truce, it is getting late and I have an undr the cosh podcast I would like to listen to before bed.

 

Not only elderly people are needing hospital care for COVID. Do you think once we tell everyone to go back and act as normal that hospitals will have no cases of COVID?

So you'd isolate all elderly and vulnerable people completely, you'd also train more carers and isolate them. You then have to isolate the families of carers or tell carers they have to live away from their families for the next who knows how long. Thats a lot of people isolating. That means all those people cannot leave their homes at all, for any reason.

This country never actually locked down as it should have. People have always been allowed to go out.

 

As I said I don't know the finer details. I just know the current policy has allowed people to die in large numbers.
And I honestly think that the numbers of young fit people who would be hospitalised would be much smaller than the current numbers. I've looked for the stats but can't find them but I want to see how many people under say 65 with no underlying health conditions are currently hospitalised and what percentage of the total covid-19 hospitalised people that is.

 

The finer details are the whole point though.

I've yet to hear a solution that is realistic for allowing the young and healthy to go back to normal while still protecting the vulnerable.
It's all well and good saying that's what should happen - I happen to agree in a perfect world, but it's just not possible while protecting those that need it. Protecting those with undiagnosed health conditions would be impossible, too.

I've told the story a few times of a mate of mine that has heart and lung problems, has done for years, but he's never been diagnosed with anything.


I don't know the numbers, but I've seen enough 'healthy' people hospitalised to know that allowing people to go back to normal is silly. That's ignoring the long term effects that we still don't know about.

Does the current policy work? No. That's because it's not gone far enough though, not because it's gone too far. That, combined with the fact that the general public have no common sense, it seems.

 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/five-point-plan-avert-coronavirus-22054716

Daily Mirror want single figure infections before lockdown is relaxed, but that's going to take a while. Even if BoJo reaches 200,000 tests a day by the end of the month, that's not good enough. Even if it's 200,000 people a day that should just be frontline workers. You still have to show Covid signs to get a test when many don't know they have it. All these months later the government should be testing a million different people per day, whoever wants one regardless of how they feel health wise. Doing so they would get infections down far quicker, which would bring normality back quicker. New normal is an horrible term because nothing is normal about any of it.

 

To be fair only Italy Russia and the US have done more tests than the UK

 

Are you really saying it's only "possible" there would have been more deaths if we hadn't locked down?