George Floyd

There is no doubt that Trump is a white supremacist.
There is no doubt that Trump is a misogynist.
There is no doubt that Trump is a liar.
I hate him.
I hate him most of all because he has turned me into a hater - I can't remember despising anyone so much.
If he brings out that reaction in me, it isn't too surprising that there is a lot of hate closer to home in the U.S.
Yes you might say that the Americans haven't a lot to choose from at the moment, but surely anyone would be a better president than him.

 

Ooh look at those 'rioters' smashing up that police car..... wait what....

 

Ive spent most of the day watching and reading. Several hundred years of slavery, subjugation, lynching, denied the vote, peaceful protest, riots et al and they still don't have justice. Yet you seem to be more concerned about broken windows and stolen items. Look I dont agree with that, that's not my thing but if the state isnt going to listen after 300 years then this is the end result as sure as day follows night. Your focus wasnt on Trump, it wasnt on the police, it wasnt on you asking for them to do the right thing, it was on your concern about rioting and stolen goods because if they dont riot then they'll get justice. That's ******** and in the grand scheme of things, it's secondary. The state uses violence (economic and physial) to oppress people, all people, but yes, especially black people. Yet when people fight back we get privilieged folk like yourself judging the entire movement on some stolen goods.

I didnt defend it, I explained it as a function of the situation. There's an important difference.

I mean here you go again, dont concern yourself over some stolen trainers and nice handbags from shopping centres, that's what they want you to look at. It's peripheral and whether you like it or not it will happen. And to be fair there's been lots of protesters stopping people from stealing from stores, but again - it doesnt fit the narrative.

 

That's fair do s churton but I'd consider voting for the Dems or republicans in the same light . Their nothing but a good cop bad cop routine but in the end 2 cops after the same thing . You could even argue the Dems are more dangerous because people don't expect them to do horrible things even though they do on the regular . At least with trump you know he's bad so it's harder for him to pass things even though the Dems 9/10 go right along with his ideas . Trump wanted to build a wall , the Dems resisted but then signed off on the funding in the senate for example . Btw this is what the Dems got up to on the border back in the day ....

https://www.law.ox.ac.uk/research-s...eborder-criminologies/blog/2015/04/racism-and

Deliberately funnelled people to their deaths .....

 

The news media will now focus their attention onto the looting instead of the real issues , it gives the state even more reason to act even more violently towards the protestors . A sorry state indeed .

 

The protests were started by black people folllowing the killing of George Floyd. Antifa arent "behind" the protests, they may well be involved in them after the event, but as I said elsewhere it's not Antifa's bag to loot local shops and beat people up. Cops - yes, banks - yes, but not burning down and looting your local community shop. In fact Id guarantee you they'd be the last people to do this. They want less corporate greed and control and more local community, it's the complete opposite of what they stand for. So that leaves a few options - local criminals, opportunists, local arsonists, undercover cops and racist white supermicist members.

If Trump declares Antifa a terrorist group then he's basically giving the police the green light to arrest anyone protesting against the KKK (and other neo-naxi groups) and to label them terrorists. If that doesnt frighten anyone, then it should. Opposing fascism and racism is not the same as being fascist or racist - if anyone thinks that then go check WWII. No platform, chase the fuckers out of every town.

Fun fact: the KKK is not labelled a terrorist group.

 

Hopefully the link works . " Light em up " ! Unbelievable .

 

Usually I'd agree with you and you're right, it is happening - but something else is and that's that the police are shooting at, arresting and harassing journalists. One journo has already lost an eye due to a rubber bullet, several are being arrested (black ones!). This is clearly 'off message' and the police usually don't want that because the press is their propaganda arm and you want them on side. But for the time being you're seeing a lot of middle of the road journos extremely upset and distressed at how the cops are treating them and protesters.

 

I will say those protesters need need some Hong Kong levels of organisation really badly.

 

Reports claim that Trump has been taken to the concrete bunker that Donald Rumsfeld was taken to during 9/11.

Notice he's still failed to address the nation, he seems to think he can run the country via Twitter.

#NoJusticeNoPeace

 

Iranian Foreign Minister stirring the pot.

 

It is an utter disgrace. Saw on bbc this morning one of their camera men were knocked over by a police officer.

 

The media state side are done for in my opinion . They ve spent the last 20 years propping up war after war that has led to many deaths worldwide . That the state they have so gleefully helped then chooses to turn on them will go down as a mute point in history .

 

It's criminal, but im really not sure there's any rule of law because the mask is slipping.

If this was the right-wing being shot at like this, you'd now be seeing police being picked off by 'armed miltia'. Note: not that it matters but the imposed curfew did allow people to be in their gardens/porches.

 

My focus in the context of this thread was on the looting and rioting because that is what we are discussing but since you mentioned it - do I agree with Trump pouring rhetorical petrol on the flames? No, I don't, I think he's a lunatic. Do I support Trump in general? No, I don't, I think he is a lunatic.

Do I agree with some of the police actions we’re seeing? No, I don't. I was appalled by the killing and likewise I am not going to support police when they use disproportionate aggression to control people peacefully protesting. I applauded the police when they took off their helmets and laid down their batons to show solidarity with protestors. They marched with them and from what I have heard this defused a potentially violent protest. Not all police are racist thugs, a lot of them just want to do their job and want the same justice that we want. I’m sure that many of them want nothing more than to police a peaceful protest instead of being drawn into confrontation because of the violence being created by a minority of protestors. They must show restraint at the minute otherwise things will escalate but restrain has it's limits

I wholeheartedly support the rights of people to demonstrate and I wholehearted support them over this killing. It was brutal and abhorrent, and I want nothing more than to see George Floyd get the justice he deserves.

There is a difference because when people start looting and rioting the focus does shift and peaceful protest becomes criminal and dangerous. What about the businesses owned by black people? Do you think the looters discriminate between businesses and only attack those that belong to white people? What about white people who are willing to march for justice? Should they be happy to see their businesses burned to the ground or looted? It isn't about the trainers or the handbags, it is about hijacking a legitimate protest and introducing anarchy and mob rule which in itself is destructive and corrosive.

As I keep saying I want justice for George Floyd, just as much as you do, but what is happening with the looting and rioting is wrong on every level and cannot be justified.

Bricks, mortar and goods may be insignificant compared to human life but smashing up the community you live in, burning cars and buildings and stealing the contents of stores does nothing to bring George Floyd back, it will do nothing to help get justice for his family and it will do nothing to educate the racist elements of America that are at the root of this.

I was appalled by the killing of George Floyd and I condemn his killing absolutely, but I am also appalled by the actions of some of the demonstrators and I condemn their actions absolutely too. This in no way reduces or dilutes the anger I feel towards the killing of Mr Floyd, nor does it mean he deserves justice any less. They are not inextricably linked.

PS. Yes I have seen at least one video of somebody (a black man for the record) trying to stop looting and at least one video of somebody (another black man for the record) trying to defuse a situation that looked like it was going to turn violent. They are both doing the right thing and deserve to be commended for their actions. I am criticising those who are distorting the narrative by their actions regardless of colour. The colour of their skin is irrelevant.

 

Yep, I remember hearing this on the radio a while ago and thought that can't be right so I checked and it is right from what I can see. Furthermore the fun facts about why they are not a proscribed terrorist organisation are equally bizarre. I despise the ideology of all extreme organisations with a propensity for violence so if Trump is to class ANIFA as a terrorist organisation then I fail to understand how he can justify it without also putting the KKK on the list.

Actually as I said in my last reply to you he is a lunatic so that is the answer. The KKK broadly support his narrative where as ANTIFA complete oppose it.

 

Yep, I remember hearing this on the radio a while ago and thought that can't be right so I checked and it is right from what I can see. Furthermore the fun facts about why they are not a proscribed terrorist organisation are equally bizarre. I despise the ideology of all extreme organisations with a propensity for violence so if Trump is to class ANIFA as a terrorist organisation then I fail to understand how he can justify it without also putting the KKK on the list.

Actually as I said in my last reply to you he is a lunatic so that is the answer. The KKK roughly support his narrative where as ANTIFA complete oppose it. What an utter mess.

 

They are going about getting their point across all wrong by attacking innocent businesses, religious buildings, elderly and those least fortunate in society.