Got Brexit done

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by e-red, May 31, 2020.

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  1. Ton

    Tonjytyke Well-Known Member

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    You can have your UN & NATO, but I put forward the proposition that the best peace keeper in the world is money. At the outset of the formation of what became the EU, the idea was to put German assets/interests in France and perhaps to a lesser extent other European countries, and vice versa. It then doesn’t seem as attractive to go to war, attack and destroy your own assets. I suggest had the EU existed in the 1920’s Hitler would never have come to power in the first place. If he had, he would have had an immense task persuading the people of Germany to support a war.
     
    Tonjytyke, Jun 1, 2020
    #81
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  2. SuperTyke

    SuperTyke Well-Known Member

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    Assumptions. Or rather conclusions based upon my own eyes and ears. Do you think I'm wrong and that a lot of racists didn't vote for it?
     
    SuperTyke, Jun 1, 2020
    #82
  3. andytyke

    andytyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    I’m sure there are a lot of remainers who are racist probably just as many as those who voted to leave
     
    andytyke, Jun 1, 2020
    #83
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  4. dek

    dekparker Well-Known Member

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    hitler would have a field day if he was around now,schengen and uncontrolled immigration would be right up his street
     
    dekparker, Jun 2, 2020
    #84
  5. Ton

    Tonjytyke Well-Known Member

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    Yes, was was well known for freedom of movement,,,,,, especially by Panzer
     
    Tonjytyke, Jun 2, 2020
    #85
  6. Burgundy Red

    Burgundy Red Well-Known Member

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    Burgundy Red, Jun 2, 2020
    #86
  7. dek

    dekparker Well-Known Member

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    you are right its not unconditional but its not far off,you can basically come and go as you please,especially (as you know) on mainland europe
     
    dekparker, Jun 2, 2020
    #87
  8. Burgundy Red

    Burgundy Red Well-Known Member

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    Not really. If one wants to stay beyond 90 days then one needs to qualify to do so, such as by being a worker or a student for example. Failing that, as @Tekkytyke alluded to, continued residence is only lawful if one can demonstrate to the satisfaction of the host member state that one is capable of living on one's own resources and not being a burden on the state. As I say, people may argue that the UK doesn't implement that side of things to their satisfaction but if so then that's the UK's fault, not the EU's. The provision is there for member states to implement and enforce such policies.
     
    Burgundy Red, Jun 2, 2020
    #88
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  9. dek

    dekparker Well-Known Member

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    sorry,dont agree,it really has never ever been so easy to move around europe.
     
    dekparker, Jun 2, 2020
    #89
  10. pon

    pontyrich Well-Known Member

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    Once people get into a certain country it is ni on impossible to keep track of them. Its ok coming up with this 90 days rubbish but once they are here they disappear. No country as the time or resources to find them.
     
    pontyrich, Jun 2, 2020
    #90
  11. sadbrewer

    sadbrewer Well-Known Member

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    Just noticed that Hitachi are to cease manufacturing diggers at their plant near Amsterdam...in future they will only be built in Japan.
     
    sadbrewer, Jun 2, 2020
    #91
  12. Burgundy Red

    Burgundy Red Well-Known Member

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    I agree that it's never been so easy to move around Europe, or even to migrate. I posted twice that I can understand how people might and do reasonably argue against that, even though I myself am in favour. My contention was with your repeated use of the phrase "uncontrolled EU migration" which is clearly misleading when there are demonstrable controls on EU migration. All I'm saying is if we're going to continue to have this debate then let's all try to be fair and reasonable in our use of language.
    I thought we were talking about legal immigration as illegal immigration is already illegal, by definition. Anyway, post-Brexit the UK is still going to have 90-day visa-free "tourist" travel with the EU, albeit likely in the context of a Schengen-style 90/180 rule, so if people disappear and stay beyond that period then they're going to be unlawfully resident thereafter, exactly the same as they already are. If it's illegal immigration we wanted to crack down on then we didn't need Brexit to do that and I don't see how it's going to help with it either, at least in the form that looks set to be implemented.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
    Burgundy Red, Jun 3, 2020
    #92
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  13. Sco

    Scoff Well-Known Member

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    Once people get into a certain country *that doesn't implement an ID card system* it is nigh on impossible to keep track of them.

    We could have had such a system to keep track of the movement of people within the UK but lots of people objected. Most of the rest of Europe has such a system. Try going to most of Europe and not registering and you wouldn't last too long before it wasn't possible to live a normal life.
     
    Scoff, Jun 3, 2020
    #93
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  14. dreamboy3000

    dreamboy3000 Well-Known Member

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    dreamboy3000, Jun 3, 2020
    #94
  15. Farnham_Red

    Farnham_Red Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    But they dont that is a lie. In goods 45% of our exports and 53% of our imports are to the EU
    The EU exports more to the USA than it does to the UK with only 14% of its exports coming to us

    Its not good for the EU if there is no trade deal but it is far far worse for us. And the EU cannot agree a deal with us that gives us better terms than its member states have that would be far worse for them.

    In any case I am of the opinion that our leaders actually want no deal so they can ditch all pretence of keeping workers rights aligned with Europe and head for their dream of a workforce they can treat as they like - like the US workforce for example
     
    Farnham_Red, Jun 3, 2020
    #95
  16. Sco

    Scoff Well-Known Member

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    Scoff, Jun 3, 2020
    #96
  17. Ton

    Tonjytyke Well-Known Member

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    Tonjytyke, Jun 3, 2020
    #97
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  18. sadbrewer

    sadbrewer Well-Known Member

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    It's certainly true as an overall picture, but the bulk of EU countries trade little or nothing with the UK, some though are extremely exposed...a 2018 article in El Pais explains some of the risk to Spain...
    https://english.elpais.com/elpais/2018/01/12/inenglish/1515755694_911389.html

    Somewhere I have an article written by the leader of one region who pointed that virtually every piece of fresh produce goes to UK customers, and no deal would be potentially devastating.


    The German press carry several articles that urge some pragmatism.
    https://www.spiegel.de/internationa...brexit-a-6884d32f-d36d-40fa-bf1c-d74a7eb632f2
    An article written by the BDI (the German version of the CBI) said 450,000 German jobs are at risk . ( I'll try and find it)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 3, 2020
    sadbrewer, Jun 3, 2020
    #98
  19. Farnham_Red

    Farnham_Red Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    I think we can all agree that no deal is bad for the EU, but my point was, and still is, that the line they need us as much as we need them isnt true. We both need each other but we will suffer far more than the EU will. To expect them to give in to our demands for full market access without a level playing field because it will hurt them if they dont is not realistic or helpful - unless your sole aim is to blame the EU when we finish up with no deal next year and claim that the UK government had no choice due to unreasonable EU demands

    By the way I edited your original post above to fix the quote which was not done correctly
     
    Farnham_Red, Jun 3, 2020
    #99
  20. man

    mansfield_red Well-Known Member

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    I'd happily gamble everything I own against a tenner that there is a higher prevalence of racism amongst people who voted leave
     
    mansfield_red, Jun 3, 2020
    #100
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