Is Democracy all it’s cracked up to be.

I have no answers but think at times Democracy fails the electorate.

The tyranny of the majority (or tyranny of the masses) is an inherent weakness to majority rule in which the majority of an electorate pursues exclusively its own interests at the expense of those in the minority. This results in oppression of minority groups comparable to that of a tyrant or despot, argued John Stuart Mill in his 1859 book On Liberty.[1]

My own example goes back to pay rises.
Those on lower income ( in the mining industry for example) always have to follow the majority. A man working underground in rich pickings ( eg Selby coalfield..) would accept a far lower % rise than a surface worker struggling to make ends meet. But we’re massively outnumbered at the ballot box. Like I say I don’t have a better solution to such things. But see democracy a failure in that respect. I’m also aware that there also has to be a gap that needs to be kept. and % increases keep that gap.

 

Let just be communist then and have done with it. Might make a few on here happy

 

What’s your view on the comment the pursual of own interests above that of society in general.
I class myself as a socialist. Where I will push for the dignity of all in society. Decent standard of living and a share of the spoils so to speak.

One thing a Tory is a million miles away from.

As I say I don’t know an answer to get to that stage.

Is it democratic that the people of Scotland should have to go along with Brexit when they are so outnumbered by the English.

It may be in the confines of the uk but it ain’t Democratic.

 

I don't think democracy itself fails the people moreover it's the techniques used to influence the masses that is a greater problem . Freuds works discovered that the masses think differently to the individual and these findings were further developed by Edward Bernays ( his nephew I think ) in his book propaganda . These techniques Bernays championed have been used ever since in the guise of " public relations " ( Bernays actually coined the phrase as propaganda was seen as too strong a word ) to sell consumer products , win elections or more seriously start a war . Bernays is probably one of the most influential persons of the 20 th century you ve never heard of . Below is a short video of his techniques if you choose to watch .

 

Brilliant that thanks.
I think Dominic Cummings used the analogy in his speech on the brexit debate.
Hopefully the later part of the speech comes to fruition. Where more people especially the younger end are able to express their individual thoughts. And not be influenced by propaganda.
Should be a part of school studies.

 

Not done Cummins any harm has it

 

Sadly, Cummings is using Bernays techniques to his own ends. A very dangerous person

 

It's funny but my kids said that . Unfortunately Bernays techniques are also used to sell you things with the belief that they will make you happy like a particular brand of car or a certain type of holiday ( that's freuds unconscious desires ) . It's all part of how a state controls it's citizens so will never happen .

 

But our democracy isn't even the choice of the majority - it's the largest of the multiple minorities. We usually have a government chosen by < 40% of the number of votes - and a landslide victory for anything over 40% of the vote - and a turnout of 60%. So the votes of less than 30% of the electorate gives an overwhelming majority.

Over 850,000 people voted Green and are represented by one single MP, 134,000 for a single Alliance MP. OTOH each tory MP represents only about 38,000 votes - each labour MP represents 50,000 votes. But we dismissed electoral reform

I fell out with my last union because they supported the long standing members, at the expense of the lowest paid.

 

Maybe I was wanting to use the car as a negative rather than it appearing a positive. Meaning a car is a form of transport and not a status symbol. My point being how easy it is to influence based on greed rather than need. May have to watch it again. To digest better.

 

I get that with the election scenario. But how do you get round it. Proportional representation?. Still would lead to a hung parliament. With sides trying to strike deals. How do you get YOUR elected representatives of choice to represent each constituency. ? Never studied how PR works to be honest. Should it also be mandatory to vote. ? As in some other countries. Leaving a space for no choice.
I do think PR is a fairer way, by the way. Everyone’s votes have a meaning. And would naturally lead to bigger turnouts.

 

True communism would make me happy.

 

Welsh M P's are elected to the Houses of Parliament following a General Election.
When an Election for the Welsh Senedd is held each voter has two votes - one for a constituency member (40 constituencies in Wales) - first past the post.
The other vote is for a Regional Member - there are 5 regions and each region has 4 members. These votes are worked out on a system of Proportional Representation.
The system used is the - D'HONDT FORMULA - google it and see if you can make any sense of it and you'll see why PR is a tad complicated.
(There are constituencies in Wales that have a tory MP at Westminster and a Plaid Member in the Senedd. - and two of their regional Members are Labour.)

 

My only issue Helen is can it work without total state intervention. And Could you then trust it’s leaders. China is classed as a communist regime but that’s nonsense. Authoritarian yes.
Russia to a lesser extent. Having a united Russia party in charge. Ditching communism.
Cuba being the closest to the ideals. But even they rely on market forces. A little less authoritarian. Than used to be.

 

Can I ask does it work.

 

True communism you don't have "leaders" . You have local communes who would then vote representatives to discuss issues at a national level. And the idea is that we wouldn't be the only communist country, it would be worldwide. The USA trade embargo on Cuba hit them economically very hard.

 

I’d advocate watching Noam Chomsky’s Requiem for The American dream.

Democracy doesn’t exist and never was intended to.

The only people that can lay claim to being 100% democratic are the ancient Greeks.

 

I get that Terry thanks. it just galls me that folk use the word democracy to justify their claims to being, the be and end all.

 

It's not a democracy when the rich and powerful prey on the gullible and feckless to gain power.