The Football Lads

In response to this?
So if you're fine with legal acts being deemed worthy of prosecution after the fact based on a moral judgment then why aren't you fine with illegal acts being deemed unworthy of prosecution after the fact based on a moral judgment?
At no time have I said about prosecution based on moral judgement. I have always cited that is illegal not morality.

 

But if that's the case then the bloke shouldn't get prosecuted for rape because it wasn't illegal at the time.

 

No perhaps the massive total of 100 people who signed the last petition raised have influenced them.

 

The law was used to make it illegal, you will know better than me that’s how laws are made and changed in a court.
The legal system had the opportunity to decide if it was illegal or not.
That’s the difference, it wasn’t people acting illegally taking the law into their own hands.

 

I don’t disagree with any of that other than acts of murder being justified because the government wouldn't listen. It’s no more acceptable for the ANC to shoot white people on a beach because the government wouldn't listen than it would be for BLM to take up arms against white people because they feel that they are being oppressed and as you’ve said in another post our government doesn't listen. So Mandela Gardens can stay because it was ok for the black people to shoot innocent white people because the government wouldn't listen to them ??

 

Or maybe it's the fact the public are beginning to realise the government have had recommendations which they fail or refuse to implement in relation to race.
Now the PM has chosen to undertake another time wasting exercise using someone who already made it public they don't believe this country is racist at all.

Again but Statues.......The new but Corbyn

 

The point remains that it was legal at the time, the same way this act was illegal at the time. Either laws are set in stone until such time as they are changed and should be enforced irrespective of morality or they aren't. There's no scope for a mix of the two.

 

Totally different, I've got a personal dog in this fight which I won't elaborate on. It's always bad when innocents die but you need to understand that normal people don't turn to illegal or perceived evil retribution at the drop of a hat. Some of the acts carried out by white South Africans would make some Nazi's look like low level offenders.

 

peaceful protest... like orgreave where the police welcomed the pickets, coralled them into a field and then set about them with horses and truncheons? the police were the lawbreakers that day and this is why charges were dropped and compensation paid out..

orgreave,hillsborough, two monumental events of the eighties where our wonderful law enforcers tarnished their reputation with lies

 

Or maybe actually the Public generally are not bothered either way about a Statue?
Perhaps that’s why the Mayor in 2018 decided to call a halt to the negotiations about the wording of the plaque.

 

Not going to argue with any of what you said mate. My family were there that day. The police abused the law but how many lawful pickets were charged with riot?

The law is an ass and isn't always right.

 

Yes it was legal at the time. But the point, which this long thread has been about is using legal processes not illegal, your example used a legal process to change the law, not wanton violence and vandalism.

 

i used to have a document ,given to me by a union man, that gave details of all arrests,(lawful or not), it gave details of charges and subsequent cases for compensation, if i can find it i'll let you know.. I'm unsure now cos its that long ago but i seem to recall that not one picket was prosecuted in relation to that day..

 

I don’t need telling how wrong apartheid was, but you’re missing my point. Racism and murder is wrong. End of. So if it’s wrong for the blacks it’s wrong for the whites, so if it’s right that a white racist slavers statue is torn down surely its right that a black racist ANC members memorial is torn down too based on the fact that they murdered innocent whites ??

 

There was no means of peaceful protest in South Africa at the time. Hence the ANC starting guerilla tactics. If you are a pacifist then I'd agree, if however you believe that war is sometimes necessary then that is more in line with how South Africa was under apartheid. Either way I'd suggest some reading so you can see what the comparisons are. Or Cry Freedom is a very watchable film to start with.

 

Wars aren't won via nice little chats and picnics together. The rightful Black uprising in South Africa was a war because all other avenues were exhausted. It was a political / race war.
No different to wars usually about religion, money or oil.

Churchill until WW2 only had a career which today wouldn't held in high esteem. He was then the voice and face of British resistance. He wasn't a master battlefield tactician he was a good communicator who was able to make tough decisions. Churchill deserves a statue.
However the rank and file officers who won awards also need statues. We should always review who is on show in public places, and move those either no longer relevant or not in keeping with modern society into museums.

Slavers took people against their will. End of and profited from death and oppression. Anyone linked to that trade however brilliant in other fields need to be moved into museums. Warts an all history needs to be taught, not a whitewashed bastardisation of British excellence. We were ******** to many races, we killed many people. I know some love how we had an empire and the union flag, statues and other representations of our might mean more than our human rights record. To them I say stop living in the past. Nationalism is being proud of where you're from but open to new ideas and cultures.

 

I can’t agree that murder for your cause can ever be right. Tell it to the mams dads and kids of the folk the ANC murdered. I’m amazed that in the job you do you can justify it. Other than that I’m in broad agreement with your views.

 

Can’t disagree with a word you put there.
History also needs to be taught in context, context of the time and context now to show progress good and bad.

 

Like I said I've got a complex view of this; no different to German friends of mine who's families knowingly covered up the disappearances of citizens linked to the Nazi party.
I'm all for law and order but in times of war it's those in Geneva who make the rules and judgements.
If someone killed Ian Huntley before his trial, would we mourn? Someone would be for the chop for letting it happen. The professional me would be appalled, the private me would raise a glass(es) to the good God karma.

 

Exactly that mate, in contex full of detail and let those learning come to a conclusion. Or better yet a proper discussion.