Here we go

Thin end of the wedge happened, it’s going to go further now:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/07/14/face-coverings-public-places-consideration/

 

Yep the Lizard people will have us enslaved on their rodent farms before you know it.

 

I find the mocking of any post in support of personal freedom and civil liberties that this forum consistently displays so depressing.

Wonder what it feels like to have so little regard for your own rights and to actively enjoy having them eroded. Thankfully I'll never know.

 

Snowflake maskmoaners. You lost. Get over it.

 

Literally every single person who's posted on this board against the erosion of civil liberties voted Remain during the referendum. How's that fit into your distorted world view?

 

And neither will I.

 

I didn't, but then again I see wearing a mask in shops as folk doing their bit to curb an awful disease not an erosion of civil liberties!

 

In opinion polls, roughly 80% of remain voters support these measures compared to roughly 30% of Leave voters. A majority of Remain voters supported earlier, stronger lockdowns and other measures before they were introduced - compared to a minority of Leave voters.

Wearing a mask is not an invasion of your civil liberties. It is a short-term measure intended to reduce the spread of a disease that has led to 70000 excess deaths in the UK in 4 months and killed nearly 600000 people worldwide so far this year.

Having a mobile tracking app that records all your movements and interactions to a central database *is* a breach of your civil liberties. A decentralised model which just informs you of potential expose isn't.

 

Being instructed what to wear absolutely is an invasion of civil liberties. I’m sorry, but that is fact. You absolutely have a valid point if you believe it is a worthwhile sacrifice to make if you genuinely believe that a) it will drive a reduction in transmission without causing any negative health side effects and b) this is only a temporary measure.

In my opinion points a) and b) are both misguided and therefore I am anti mask. If you can’t even agree that being told what to wear is an imposition then there’s no point us even debating as I can only assume you’re just trolling.

 

Apart from the fact it isn’t indeed fact.

If you were being instructed to wear a mask for no reason (e.g. we weren’t still in the midst of a pandemic) then sure you’d have a point.

When it is being done to help save lives it doesn’t go against your civil liberties.

Do you get in a car and protest against a seat belt? Do you get on a bike and protest against a helmet? Do you go through airport terminal and refuse to have your bags x-ray’d? They’re all for your own safety.

The number of people that have died in the UK could fill oakwell.. twice. Over half a million people in the world have died.

Just wear the mask, cut the chance of this spreading and then maybe finally we can go back to living in a world where a mask isn’t needed.

 

Loads of people everyday get told what to wear in all walks of life, from Uniforms to PPE at work.
Never thought of it as civil liberties issue though

 

What negative health affects can you get from wearing a face covering? Can you provide peer-reviewed medical papers please? - I am really sure that if wearing a mask caused health issues then the doctors and surgeons *who have to wear them daily* would have a) noticed and b) found a better solution.

As for it being a temporary measure - the UK government (especially the Home Office) has a really hard-on for facial recognition cameras (despite the issues including an invasion of your previous civil liberties) and won't be really supporting long-term something that affects their ability to use that while tying up police time dealing with people that refuse to comply.

How does wearing a mask affect your freedom to speak? Freedom of religion? Freedom of the press? The right to a fair trial? Equal treatment under the law? You could argue it affects your freedom of expression, but surely that is overruled by the right to life

 

maybe
maybe not

 

What's your view on the law that requires the wearing of a seatbelt in a car? And the law that bans smoking in public areas? Are both of these an invasion of civil liberties?

No disrespect intended, but I can already guess that your answer will be: yes, factually these are both an invasion of civil liberties. I'll happily stand corrected, if I've jumped to the wrong conclusion there. And if that is your answer, then factually you are correct. But that's not really the point.

Perhaps a better question would be: at what point do these invasions of civil liberties (which are designed for the greater good, however much people may argue otherwise) become a step too far? That's a subjective issue. Personally, I don't mind wearing a mask for the sake of a 30 minute shopping trip twice a week. I won't be doing it until the 24th because I'm not fully convinced about the safety aspect, but once it's required I'll comply without complaint. Maybe I should change my username to Old Sheep.

 

Of course I can. Lots of examples. Will the BMJ do? If not I’ll send you a load of links from the CMO and Deputy CMO 3 months ago before this bizarre U turn they’ve taken:

https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1435/rr-40

 

Spot on - they absolutely are (in these cases very minor) invasions of civil liberties, but in those cases they are well justified by 1) The level of actual risk posed in those scenarios to either the individual or others and 2) Well informed and proven scientific data that shows the risk is significantly negated by the measures.

It’s as I said earlier - I do understand the argument for masks if you believe that it’s just temporary and it has a net benefit to public health. I don’t think either of those things, so I’m against. Thats all.

 

You’re right we should all walk around naked. Pesky government saying we all have to cover our genitals. What an infringement of civil liberties.

You’d have a point if they told us to wear a mask with Boris’ face on or a Union Jack or something, but they’ve told us to wear a face covering. You still have your freedom of expression, you can wear one with a pattern on, any colour you want etc.

 

Just trying to understand this.

Are you suggesting you think the government want everybody to wear masks forever for some weird sense of control? Or am i missing something here?

 

Do you do a lot of shopping then?

 

My issue is - when's the end game to masks. At what point do you stop having them? We're introducing them at a time when there is tiny levels of community transmission taking place (my town, Stockport, has approximately 200,000 people living in it and is seeing positive test numbers of around 2 people per day - and those are usually in hospitals/homes etc). So at what point do you stop? And what politician is now going to be brave enough, in the face of overwhelming public anxiety, to make a unilaterally declaration of "it's safe now".

I honestly think now we've crossed this bridge there's no going back.