For those saying the academy hasn't given us much

Because we've only sold stones, holgate, Bree etc.

Hasn't it also given us Jacob brown, jack Walton, Ben Williams, romal Palmer and Matty Wolfe?

Considering the rumoured fees weve pissed up the wall with the likes of wilks and Thiam I'd say it has saved us a fortune

 

And many many more pre Conway

 

I'm not knocking our academy that's wasn't my point, we bought Ben williams from Blackburn and its too soon to tell if romal and matty Wolfe will have an impact here, I hope they do.

I absolutely agree we wasted money on Wilkes and mama, weve recouped on Wilkes though it was a gamble that seemed worth taking given how he'd done and donny.

I was just trying to start a reasoned debate about how affective it is for us whilst running at a loss.

 

I thought we picked up Ben Williams from the Blackburn academy?

How many of the others have genuinely come through the academy vs signed up for development squads?

 

I think Palmer was also signed from Man City to go in to the U18s wasn’t he?

Academies can of course produce great youngsters but we also sign a fair few young players too, not only for our first team but also to go in our U23s and U18s.

 

Brentford have got the best idea. They scrapped their academy and just pick up the cast offs from the big London clubs academies.

 

Id say that anyone signed and playing in the academy for a couple of years before playing for the first team has to be taken into account with the academy value surely?

 

Thought these owners had a vision of building a hotel for the academy lads, and keeping them here full time?

Investing massively in a whole new academy less than 12 months ago, now there’s rumours they’re scrapping it all together? These owners are really something else.

 

I think the point is that they would still play as we'll have the u23s and u18s.

 

Isn't that just someone's guess?

 

First of all, this is still only a rumour, and I do not want to get too serious in case it turns out to be a false one.

However, I wrote a piece about a year ago when I noticed that we were signing more and more rejects from the larger academies at the age of 16 and 18. I was querying whether it was still worth our while spending money on the kids from 8 up to 16, and whether it would not be better to concentrate on scouting rejects from other academies. After all, we do not get first choice on kids any more because we are not classed as a top academy. Only a Premier League team can be classed as a top academy apparently, and there are very few Premier League teams in our academy leagues. Someone on here pointed out that the academy costs very little for the early years, because most of the coaches are part-time or voluntary, and I held my hands up to accept that I was wrong. On that basis, the rumour does not look right, and perhaps the staff have been temporarily laid off because of COVID.

 

It's done orite for us over the years Butterfield aswell, bruce dyers son is in our accademy at the minute so I expect he will be off. But patrick used to subsidise the accademy to the region of around 1million each season. With the current covid situation it's hardly surprising it's the 1st to go.

As for wilks we have sold him for a fee rumoured to be 1.3 million last week and probley have a sell on in there so havemt lost out. Not sure how we will get the 1million back we paid for schmidt

 

Isn’t there some ruling that says that Prem clubs can sign players from academies for a fixed amount of c. £250k so effectively you could have a kid come through from U8 and then be sold for a relative pittance as everything is aligned to the greed league.

By only taking 18’s and 23’s I guess you have a player that you haven’t had the overhead of up to 19 years investment and you’re potentially picking em up for nowt when they get cast off by the top clubs.

Northern Prem teams must cast off dozens of players each year such as Romal Palmer.
Seems a sensible approach to me

 

That's the thing though isn't it. Did Patrick really find the academy £1m a year? Or did he fund the club £1m a year? If Patrick used £1m of the club's funds to sign frimpong and pay his wages and then handed over £1m himself to fund the academy is that any different to using the club's funds to pay the academy costs and then handing over £1m for frimpong?

 

Sunderland are a category 1 academy.

 

Fair enough.

Was it set up when they were Premier League?

 

I think it was the grade of accademy he wanted to maintain. I see what your saying but my point is that it's still a extra cost each season and in the current situation the accademy as roumor always said the deficit was around 1million a year if no one is willing to bridge that gap will be the 1st thing to go. I think red rain has a point when he says we could be better off picking up rejects from the bigger academy's anyway. But the owners gave so much emphasis on the accademy and there plans for it it does seem odd.

 

I suppose so but they get to keep it. Costing them a fortune, and not won a match all season I think. I'm not sure what the criteria are but it's costly.

 

Brown was released by Wednesday before coming to us. J. Williams at Huddersfield. B. Williams from Blackburn, Palmer from Man City. I think most of the U-23s are other academies cast offs.

 

Sheffield United are still in our academy league, so Sunderland must have their place. The expense is the problem. I remember John Dennis being convinced that that was the way to go, but even he gave up when the costs went through the roof.