Compulsory vaccinations

Bit quick with the insults this morning aren’t we? I’ll tell you what - shall we both put our qualifications on the table and we’ll decide who’s stupid?

Of course it is. It’s meant to be. Because your idea of compulsory vaccination and breaking the Nuremberg code is utterly offensive.

 

You really really don't. You need evidence to show it's safe. That's why there are clinical trials and procedures to follow before new drugs and vaccines are allowed on the market. Because so many drugs that are developed prove not to be safe during testing.

I find it astonishing you want to turn this on its head.

 

It does make me laugh how you keep wanting to compare qualifications, but you have persistently disputed the thoughts and actions of far more qualified people than yourself.

 

What, like Carl Heneghan and Michael Yeadon? Nah mate, I stand with them.

 

http://dx.doi.org/10.1136/bmj.m4425

Have a read of this from the BMJ if you’ve got five minutes, if you’re still under the impression that the SAGE boys are simply ‘following the science’.

 

You have avoided answering every single question put to you. Are you a politician?

 

And some clinical trials of some vaccinations are showing just that. Including ones that have been independently peer reviewed.

Vaccinations and drugs, whilst similar in some respects are very importantly different in others and in regard to how they are tested. But I expect you know that...

 

I know that to understand long term implications then longitudinal trials and studies are required. As do you.

 

Blimey...Pot, kettle and black.

 

I'm not replying to a sourceless, unspecific question designed to be so open ended that you can make it mean as you want.

 

If people take the vaccine and it works that makes them safe. If someone chooses to not take it they can only pass on Covid to others who have decided the same and that's the risk they take, but no way should it be mandatory. Vaccines usually take 10-15 years so what do you suggest we do if in a decade or two we have a huge upsurge in people getting the likes of cancer, diabetes, heart problems etc from a delayed reaction to taking the vaccine over time? The companies making them you can't sue if you end up disabled or with bad health because they are being protected.

 

Bit tetchy on here this morning...

 

And none of them have had the numbers of people, person hours and money that this has had thrown at it in the history of medicine. And you know that too.

 

Specific question:
This vaccine has not been tested to the usual phase 3 time period. Without that being done is it possible to know with certainty what effect it will have on the human body 2 years after taking it?

Specific question: in the past, and indeed in the 31st century have clinical trials had to be altered long (more than 8 months) into the trials due to serious adverse effects?

Specific question: Why, in your opinion is the usual trial period so long rather than being just a few short months?

Specific question: What is the quickest a vaccine has ever completed clinical trials in the history of modern medicine?

 

Which doesn't help longitudinal studies in the slightest. While the political and financial rewards for getting a "working" vaccine to market and be the first to do that are astronomical.

 

You aren't thick. You know there is a difference between a lot of people and a long period of time.

 

I'll be honest I'm ******* sick and tired of lovely people on here who constantly claim i, and others, are saying things they haven't said, put words into my mouth. Act like I'm a complete lovely person and generally sit in their ******* ivory towers not giving a toss about anyone else. This year has taught me that while the BBS has some wonderful people it also has a hell of a lot of absolute lovely people on it

 

Question one.

Phase one has more or less been completed hence the announcenent.

Phase one is the inital testing on healthy subjects only to make sure the vaccine isnt a killer.

Phase two ends summer 2021

Phase three winter 2022.

 

"Some of the science behind developing this new vaccine is already in place. “A lot of research went into creating vaccines for two other dangerous coronaviruses — the SARS coronavirus [in 2002] as well as the MERS coronavirus” in 2012, Schaffner says. As a result, many drug companies already have technology that they've been able to use. In the case of COVID-19, scientists have been able to identify the sequence for a key protein on its surface called a spike protein."

"One advantage is that the new coronavirus, 2019-nCoV, belongs to the same family as the severe acute respiratory syndrome (Sars), for which a vaccine was developed following the 2002 outbreak. “Certainly that information will give us a head start,” said Prof Brendan Wren, dean of the faculty of infectious and tropical diseases at London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine (LSHTM)."

The methods of developing the vaccine and the money available to do it (eg US vaccine research has $1bn behind it) are different than the usual way. They've apparently taken a staggered and parallel development to it, whereby they've been able to do several things at once rather than doing them sequentially. Money and manpower and help reduce that time frame.

Still not actually specific because all clinical trials on drugs and vaccines are different. But yes, trials are stopped all the time because stuff doesn't work or causes a reaction or is unsafe.That's a good thing, right?

Some are hard to make work than others. Also,

From a cursory search about 4 years.

Sources: https://www.theguardian.com/science...outbreak-help-in-race-for-coronavirus-vaccine

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-23/coronavirus-vaccine-human-trials-how-do-they-work/12177606

https://www.aarp.org/health/drugs-supplements/info-2020/developing-testing-covid-vaccine.html

 

Reply as above re major mitigating factors. Time is money. Necessity is the mother of invention.