Might stir up a sh*tstorm with this one but here goes....

.... What are people views on the Unions threat of strikes if there is a pay freeze for public sector workers*?
*Caveat that there are indications that NHS front line workers will be exempted."

MY own view is that, people who have been fortunate not to be furloughed i.e. remained fully employed with normal salary (the vast majority of public sector workers) are represented by Unions demanding pay rises at a time when many self employed and Private sector workers have either been furloughed , laid off or worse still gone bankrupt.
The country's finances are in total disarray (a £2.1tr debt) and enormous deficit, due to propping up the economy (Please- can we save the arguments about how much of that is down to Govt mishandling for another time/thread?)
We still have not got a clear idea how long this will continue and even if the economy does bounce back the hit on the World economy is bound to mean medium to long term difficulties.

My own view is that, in the 70s some Unions were incredibly powerful and regularly used strikes and threat of strikes to bargain for more pay and I cannot understand why they would revert to the old Govt vs Unions stance at the present time over pay.

It is inevitable that tax rises will follow on (we can only wait to see how that pans out for the super rich and corporates) but demanding pay rises with strike threats is frankly IMO ridiculous and a slap in the face to those (like at least one or two on the BB who have seen their business and livelihoods 'go to the wall'.)

As regard Pensions (and as pensioner) IMHO the triple lock should be at the very least suspended and frozen for people with additional occupational pensions. Ideally, again IMO, any increases should be means tested but, as we all know that is difficult and probably costs more to administer than it would save. One simpler option would be to freeze State Pension for those people who have additional occupational Pensions which exceed the SP.

Whether the motivation it is a genuine concern for the membership or a politically motivated attack Govt, either way, IMHO it is selfish, irresponsible and highly damaging to the country at an incredibly difficult time should they follow through with the threat

I am not anti-Union but this IMO leaves a bad taste when so many are really struggling . Fighting to protect workers rights is one thing and why Unions are necessary but this reflect badly on those Union Czars threatening strikes. I wonder how the membership actually feel about it.

 

Is the subtext of your opening statement that it is right that front line NHS workers should be exempt?

 

Another form of austerity forced upon the Working class. And not on those that can afford it most. Call it selfish if you want. But till the spoils of capitalism in full flow. Are evenly distributed amongst workers in any walk of life and not just those at the top. They have every right to protect the livelihoods of those most in need. Pay freezes. Tax rises. What next.
25% of the debt could be wrote off. As it’s the government’s own money. Tied up in the Bank of England. According to experts.
Matt Hancock on GMB will not commit to not taking a pay rise. Given the fact a £3k+ pay rise for MP’s is recommended by the independent body. Nuff said. What a moron. Not a difficult question.

 

Maybe if they stopped spunking the nations GDP up the wall on mass testing that doesn’t work used on well people they might be able to afford a pay rise for public sector workers.

 

Not a subtext... just pointing out if anyone has not seen the media that the Govt (Sunak ) hinted at it.

That said, if you want my opinion, (and it is only an opinion) whilst it is dangerous to single out one specific group... Those in the NHS and Social care sectors, of all the PS workers, have borne the brunt of the workload (and continue to do so) Morale is rock bottom so it is in ALL Our interests to at least give them some reward and recognition and not just platitudes.
It is Incredible (though hardly surprising) that MPs are not forgoing their pay rise though. Whilst I still believe unions are being irresponsible the MPs are equally , if not more so, in accepting that pay rise.
.

 

Maybe if they stopped giving contracts for £100m+ to friends instead of established companies (particularly for PPE provision) for overpriced, unsuitable products, we might be in a much better position.

 

Agreed - and If we hadn’t spunked money on PPE that demonstrably doesn’t work that would be even better again.

 

So what part of " (Please- can we save the arguments about how much of that is down to Govt mishandling for another time/thread?) did you not understand?
The country is in dire straits and some are threatening action that will cause even more problems. "Protecting the livelihoods" YES! Fighting for pay rises for people still in full employment when so many have lost their jobs , surviving on handouts and getting 60-80% of their normal income NO!

These are NOT normal times and it is not the right time to be fighting the class war. They (Union bosses' should pick their battles. I can honestly see more people (particularly those in the Private sector) being turned off even more by unions.

 

FAO Tekkytyke
For what part of the government’s mishandling did I mention. ?
You asked a question I responded why I don’t agree. If you don’t like it that’s your perogative. It’s not selfish. It’s about using other means.
You stoked the fire. Others poke it.

 

Odd argument this one. If I had of been furloughed you wouldn’t have had the required amount of people on frontline ambulances in my workplace. We had been deemed 3rd most important in the critical response to the pandemic in our service behind frontline staff & ambulance control staff but the government is just going to deem I was a none frontline worker.

At times I wished I had been furloughed to be honest my mental health, workload, working hours dealing with a worried team and watching my wife struggling with homeschooling an 8yr old whilst working from home full time.

It’s another kick in the teeth from this government to be treated as a 2nd class part of the NHS but I’m no longer surprised - they are trying to break it up anyway

 

I juts KNEW it would turn into another anti Govt rant from the usual suspects and in spite of reqeusting that they save it for another thread.

OK I will bite .... So in other words, those who have responded so far think it is OK for the Unions to pursue a damaging action in a national emergency for a single sector of society (PS workers) when by the same token the Establishment/MPS are looking after their own interest) are pilloried for doing the same. And yet you decry (rightly) the 'one rule for them'...attitude, except, apparently when the boot is on the other foot.
Two wrongs do NOT make a right.

 

OK I will rephrase it.... DO you think it is right for Public Sector Unions to threaten strike action over pay in a National crisis?

Yes or no?

 

This is what I was trying to say to you the other day, TT. If you know what's coming, why bother with it and getting riled up by it? It isn't worth it.

If I knew i'd probably get a tonne of abuse by asking a group of teenagers to pick their litter up for example, I'd probably think twice about bothering next time. And I hate litter, but the fact is, they aren't going to pick it up. And you're never going to get what you're hoping for either.

 

So is the argument:
The people who didn’t work shouldn’t have to pay even an inflation linked pay rise for the people who made their furlough payments, paid them benefits, policed their streets, built their nightingale hospitals?

And the justification is the government can’t afford to pay its frontline workers properly because they’ve given all my taxes to their mates for non existent or sub standard PPE.

 

For gods sake man. it’s not about anti government read my reply again. You said a shitstorm may occur . You invited it. You have not given me a reasonable response to my views.

 

I just don't think it's fair that those who have worked all the way through will eventually pick up the tab for those that have been furloughed.

 

But don't you dare mention that last bit, he's asked you not to...

 

( Not in answer to your question) NO I expect ANY government to use other means of clearing the debt. Not on on those that can least afford it. I implore you to watch the latest GMB v Matt Hancock interview. Scared to death not to answer the simple question. “ Will you. Say right now. You will not take a pay rise.” Saying “wait till the report comes out.”
The unions are in effect part of the Labour movement. And as such would consult with the party on a way forward.
Tories are anti union have you not noticed.
You call that anti government if you want but I would say that against ANY party.
But no other party is saying A 3yr pay freeze and a possibility of tax increases may arise. Gordon Brown quite clearly stated Austerity is not the answer to economic recovery. Less to spend. Less growth.

 

I spent years in the armed forces in the 70s early 80s. I hated the unions,in my opinion they got too strong and we're holding the country to ransom. It was no fun when you had been away from your wife and kids for 8 months and then get home, have your leave stopped and go and do someone else's job while they were on strike, for no extra pay. Its was classed as tough **** get on with it. Everyone has their own personal agenda but striking is not for me

 

You don’t get to start a thread and dictate what related issues get discussed in it.