Anybody on here who voted Leave and then Tory...

Johnson does not care a jot about the damage he’s inflicted on the country economically and in terms of deaths this year, nor the damage brexit will cause in the new year.
He is exclusively in power to get himself and his pals (who have already funnelled all their key assets out of the uk) as much profit from brexit as possible and then he will be off.
Someone else will then take over and amnesia will set in across the country as people act like it’s an entirely different and innocent party that had nothing to do with all this and win by another landslide. Absolutely guarantee that’s the Tory strategy. You saw that with rishi earlier this year- give a Tory a David cameron smile and everyone swoons.
That said, an election could be held tomorrow on a manifesto that boris Johnson’s going to shag your wife and burn your house down and kier starmer is a socialist and he’d win by a landslide anyway. Failed state.

 

I believe his missus is one of the heirs to what was left of the Wentworth/Fitzwilliam fortunes?

 

All about opinions.

But for me, Corbyn is by far the worst Labour leader in my lifetime.

 

Unless you live in an area where Lib Dem stand a chance of winning, anyone that refuses to vote for Labour because Starmer isn't far enough to the left, just allows more years of tory rule.

And they will just continue to shift further and further to the right, because they keep winning. Johnson will go, and Gove will take over. When he goes, he'll probably have to hand over to Satan as the tories bring hell to the UK, presumably to save themselves a trip.

 

Breathtaking ignorance gets you promoted in this government. That and a lack of any moral compass of course. This is by far the worst government in my lifetime, with a collection of the worst MP’s and I fear the worst is yet to come once we have a no deal Brexit. The children will bear the greatest burden unfortunately. History will not judge this government or those who voted for this kindly.

 

We live in a democracy, we are allowed to vote and express our views. That is what has been held so precious in this country and why many have lost their lives fighting to maintain our freedom (somewhat ironic at the moment)

You may not agree with the outcome, we may be run by the most incompetent government, certainly in my lifetime, but these politicians and the decision to leave the EU were voted for by the people under the current electoral conditions.

I did not vote for the government or Brexit but the electorate did.

 

This current closure of the borders might be a good rehearsal. All remainers fault, of course!

 

Yes @leythtyke can you imagine where we will end up if millions of people refuse to vote for labour because of who the leader is...

 

I voted leave. I would again today, too. And not for the reasons you might assume. I traveled to Greece many times from 2010 to 2015 and I've seen first hand a rise in extreme nationalist sentiment. I spoke to many, many locals about their economic problems and they all invariably blamed the EU. They simply can't be competitive when they're tied to the euro. They also, basically, had their government taken off of them to replaced by a bunch of technocrats. Disgusting that the birthplace of democracy should be reduced to such a state. The EU, and particularly the Euro, is keeping millions impoverished in Greece, Spain, Portugal etc. If they at least had their own currencies, they could be more competitive and it would create jobs. Tying economies like Greece and Germany together in a currency union is bonkers and is crushingly anti liberal. Whether you agree with the idea of a United States of Europe of not, I personally don't think it could work even if I think in an ideal world it might be a nice idea. Nationalism, historically, has always trumped liberalism (as Brexit demonstrated). That's quite sad, but if we are to use history as a yardstick from which we can calculate and measure future progress, we have to at least recognise it and factor it in to decision making at a uni or multilateral level.

Some might consider what I've said controversial. Just my opinion. The EU, a fantastic idea, gone terribly wrong. It's been hijacked by some not-so-nice people.

 

I class myself as a democratic socialist. I am aware that this is a pejorative term with the hard-left (anyone doubting this should try mildly questioning the Corbynite cult on Twitter and see the response). I believe myself to be much closer to the history and values of the Labour Party than these people, whose ability to abuse anyone with even slightly different opinions appears to be limitless. In this they seem to me to be little different to the right-wing crackpots who similarly spout bile at any alternative viewpoint. In terms of the hard-left, I just wish they would get on with forming their own protest movement and stop damaging the only party that provides any hope for those in this country that need them most.

 

Kent in a lorry park with sunny uplands and 350 million quid a week.

 

Thing is the Labour Party has shifted too far from its founding ideals. Why shouldn't they have a say, they are nearer to them than some "centrists" in the party.

 

I disagree Helen. But I respect your right to hold a different opinion.

 

lots of slurs in your post. The people I see abusing people on social media are those lovely centrist people who gifted the tories their majority by campaigning against Corbyn and giving Johnson a free pass. The current malaise is as much their fault as anyone else. On brexit they wouldn’t listen to Corbyn saying that we must respect the vote and go for a soft brexit but shouted and screamed and wouldn’t accept any compromise so have inadvertently given us the hard brexit we will get.

 

I think if Labour had taken Brexit seriously it would have stood a better chance in the last election. It leant towards offering a referendum that many of Brexit voters saw as diluting their votes and dismissing them as protest votes.

That's why they didn't get my vote anyway.

 

That was Thatcher not the EU.

 

Not forgetting how they were made to sell off large chunks of Greek infrastructure, like their airports, to German multinationals as part of the conditions to the 2015(?) bailout.

This is why I would have voted Leave, and wanted to, but couldn't do so due to the Tories being the ones in charge of it. In the end I unhappily, spoilt my ballot.

 

I'm assuming you're referring to people that refused to vote labour just because of Corbyn? I agree, I was never a big fan of him, but I hate the "but Corbyn" arguments and voted for him without any hesitation. Yet, having seen the consequences of it, we still hear people saying they're not voting Labour because they don't like the leader.

 

I should have abstained rather than voting Tory. However, I saw a Labour vote as a way of remaining via the back door. As they would have offered a second referendum favouring remaining.

It would have been leave with deal. Remain or Leave with no deal. Leave with deal and remain would have been classed as the same. Then after more deadlock article 50 would have been revoked.

 

A question, bearing in mind that we live in a politically centre-right country with occasional moves to centre-left with little or no chance of ever having a hard-left government, why would you vote to leave the EU when they have successfully upheld workers rights which our governments would have been keen to downgrade?