OT Cars

Any people on here ITK regarding cars? As some may remember my car died on me a few months ago during the lockdown. I have managed to get it fixed but at a high cost and now selling it on and going to go down the lease route as I work in the NHS and we have a good discounted lease scheme which is good value.

I am not sure what to opt for and unsure of the best options around. I commute a fairly long distance to work each day (when in the office that is) and we also cover a large patch so can cover really long distances to get to sites out in Halifax, Huddersfield, etc. (I live in the Worksop area btw).

I did have a 1.6 focus before it died and it was costing me a lot in fuel as it was only getting around 40 MPG so was having to fill up every 4 days or so. I need something with high MPG, comfy, and reliable. I was looking into the plug-in hybrid route but unsure how good they are compared to just a standard diesel option. Manufacturers claim these can get over 100 MPG but I am skeptical. Any advice welcomed, I was looking into the Volvo XC40 plug-in hybrid which I really like but not sure what else is about that would be as good or better. I need something with a fairly big boot as I have the dog who I take out regularly who is seen in my profile pic and she is too big to fit in the boot of something tiny.

 

For 5 years until mid2020 I did similar driving to you- anywhere daily from North Mcr to York and Scarborough. My last 3 cars have been Skoda 1.6 diesel- Octavia estate, Superb estate and Karoq. Very reliable and owt up to 65+mpg with careful driving. Huge boot on all three though might not be a young mans choice.

 

I like the Karoq I think its a pretty good looking car. To be honest I need to stay away from the typical 'young person' car as they are often sporty with crap MPG

 

Dont worry about MPG unless you intend to lease a guzzler. New cars are very much a muchness these days in terms of efficency. It wont be petrol that stings you. Itll be mileage.

First ask fleet solutions what deals they have on. For example they did the other year have loads of VWs.

If theyve over ordered/someone left prior to the car turning up etc or a supplier has offered them a load in bulk you might be able to get a better car for less.

Eg a Q5 for Q3 prices.

Get some ideas of what itll cost and how it will affect your take home pay. Cover several different models/brands and get a test drive.

Work out your annual mileage. Then look at the rates for 8k 10k and 12k per annum for the car(s) you have shortlisted.

For example

8k - 300 a month
10k -350 a month
12k - 400 a momth

Then see what the excess mileage is.

Depending on how the contract is structured you might find out its cheaper to do 8k per annum then pay excess mileage than a 10k a year option.

For example

8k a year would be 3.6k
10k a year would be 4.2k
12k would be 4.8k a year

Excess mileage with the NHS is about 10p a mile inc vat.

So you sign up for 8k a year. And do 4000 extra miles a year youll only pay and extra 400 quid.

Do some digging....

 

I have started some initial research on the fleet management site. Seen some prices for 'popular' cars but a lot of them were either way too small for me or mega expensive per annum. I have worked out my work mileage from home to be around 18k a year (that's of course if I go back into being in office 5 days a week) so ideally need to put down around 20k miles per year to cover my commutes plus any additional miles.

Submitted for a few quotes today, gone a little ambitious to start with to test the waters to see costings etc then if they come back costly like I think they will then I will have to tone down my expectations and aim a little lower.

 

You understand what I mean about using lower mileage contracts and just paying excess mileage?

 

Yeah, I get what you mean.

I have put two requests in for the same 3 cars. One for 10k a year milage and the other for 20k a year milage. Then I can see how much the price increase is for the same cars but on different milage then I just need to find out the cost per mile if I go over.

 

And if you have the capital, look outside the NHS as well.

 

Not at all sure that a plug in hybrid is the way to go based on your mileage pattern. People often buy into them without giving it any thought because they were sold a dream by the salesman. Manufacturers quoting miles per gallon figures of >100mpg is completely disingenuous and I am not sure on what basis those kinds of averages are even calculated, as it depends totally on your usage.

A PHEV will have a battery that is good for around 25 miles on electric only. They are a good option for people who drive only locally and short distances such as to the shops, as these type of drivers could do most of their mileage on electric and make a tank of fuel last them all year, as long as they can be bothered to plug it in, which is not always the case as people know they have the fall back of the fuel in the tank if they can't be bothered. Some people even take a PHEV as a company car because of the beneficial BIK rates and have no intention of ever plugging it in - they are not interested. Surely only a matter of time before this loop hole is removed by removing the tax benefits of PHEVs.

However, if you are regularly doing more miles than that in single journeys, then they can return worse figures than a regular ICE car because once the battery is depleted, you are then running around on petrol only, but lugging a heavy empty battery around for good measure.

This NHS lease scheme - is it just a third party NHS related benefit or is it a salary sacrifice scheme?. i.e. do you have a BIK payment to make that needs to be factored in?. If so, even though full electric BEVs are more expensive to buy, they may not necessarily be that much more expensive to lease as you are just paying for the depreciation. It may be worth while looking at the total cost of ownership of an ICE taking into account the BIK payment, and comparing it to a BEV, as BEVs attract 0% BIK this year, then 1% next year and 2% the year after, so although the lease payment is higher, the overall cost may be comparable. Then you can factor in the negligible cost of fuel and the 0% road tax as well. If you are doing less than around 200 miles a day and have a drive at home where you can install a home charger, then they would easily fit into your usage pattern without ever going anywhere near a public charger if you get one with a decent sized battery. I know I am biased now, being an EV owner, but once you have got one, you'd never go back to ICE.

Your dog would probably be fine in a Kia e-Niro (250 mile real world range, maybe 200 in winter), but if you need something bigger, take a look at the Skoda Enyaq, coming to these shores in the spring of next year.

 

Is it these people? - I can't see the numbers without creating an account but worth checking their offers on BEVs.

https://www.nhsfleetsolutions.co.uk/electric-offers

 

It's a salary sacrifice scheme but discounted so some good deals about. I'm really dubious about full electric currently tbh. I'd need to charge regularly and I'd need to pay for a home charger installed too which adds to the initial start up costs. We also love going up to the lakes which is a fairly long drive and a single charge wouldn't last there and back so you then have to mess about finding charger ports etc until the ranges and charge times are better I am holding off on electric

 

Fair enough, I appreciate its not for everyone yet, but if you are put off a BEV because you would have to charge regularly, then don't touch a PHEV because you'd have to do the same, because if you don't bother then it is just a regular ICE with the weight of a body in the back.

Because of Covid, I have only done 2.5k miles in mine so far, so am not charging regularly, but when I am back doing what I did before, I expect to have to plug in every day - its no biggie. You get used to a different way of thinking with a BEV, instead of filling it up when its nearing empty, you just plug in when you get home. Takes 20 seconds. Little and often, leave the house with a full charge every day. It just becomes routine. As for longer journeys, mine are longer than yours for work purposes because I cover the whole country in normal times, but the public infrastructure is improving all the time at a rapid rate of knots. I don't have big concerns about it, although I appreciate I will be inconvenienced at times with the requirement to stop to charge. But normally, on a long journey, I stop anyway to eat.

For a lot of people, I think the next forthcoming change of car they will come to the same conclusion as you, but the one after that will be BEV. It will be commonplace in 5 years.

 

With a PHEV can you charge the battery just by driving and braking etc though? If so does that help to increase the performance etc. Also if you are in 'hybrid' driving mode will that perform better than a standard diesel engine and still have lower tax? I'm very new to this hybrid game so no idea on how they work to be honest

 

No. Well, almost No. All electric cars have an element of regenerative braking technology to add back a little to the battery when braking. But a PHEV is basically a BEV with a smaller battery and a petrol engine to use as well. PHEV means "Plug in Hybrid Electric Vehicle". The electric mainly comes from plugging it in. The regenerative braking element accounts for very little of the electric energy you would use.

The different types of electric are:

HEV - Hybrid electric (e.g. mild hybrid). These are what Toyota laughingly call 'Self Charging electrics', which is so mis-leading, it is surprising that it does not fall foul of advertising regulations. People think they are electric cars but without the hassle of charging them. They have very small batteries (around 1kwh) and only generate electricity through regeneration. So yes, they are self charging, because you can't plug them in, but they are not capable of driving on electric alone and the electric element is just adding a little efficiency to what is basically a petrol car.

PHEV - Plug in Hybrid Electric. Battery size of around 8-13kwh, good for around 25-30 miles of electric driving. Electric comes from plugging it in, not normally capable of fast charging because they battery is only small, so you plug them in at home on a 7kw home charger for a couple of hours. The electric can be used to drive electric only, or to drive hybrid. Once it is gone, you use it as a petrol car.

BEV - full electric. Battery size varies, but modern ones are usually 50kwh+, with many of them now more than 70kwh. Mine is 64kwh.

By the way, there are very few diesel hybrids out there. A PHEV usually means hybrid petrol / electric. Mercedes do a diesel hybrid, but I can't think of any others.

 

Thank you. Would you say a PHEV driven in hybrid mode over a med/long distance on motorway would do better or just as good as a standard diesel cruiser e.g. 3 series 320d. I have been doing research into the xc40 PHEV for example and a review i saw said they got 61 MPG from it in hybrid mode which is so much better than the 40 ish i got in my petrol focus but that is to be expected. the abilty to drive pure electric would be good for the short journeys i do around my local area to shops etc but if a diesel will do better or just as good in my day to day it may be better to stick to that as the purchase cost will be lower.

 

My reading of it is that phevs don't qualify for salary sacrifice unless they can do 80 miles on battery only which none of them can. Nissan leaf all electric can do 220 miles real world and hit 60 in 7 seconds. You get a grant for charging point so it's free.

 

It is difficult to give a definitive answer to that because it depends on what diesel you are comparing it to compared to what PHEV. Also depends on how you drive it. But I would hazard a guess that a PHEV will probably match a good diesel in hybrid mode, but won't blow it out of the water. The wild claims of the sales people of 100+ mpg are almost certainly not achievable. But it depends on how long your journeys are and how long the electric in the battery lasts - in pure electric mode, it will only last around 25 miles. No idea about hybrid mode. It is a bit of a stab in the dark as to whether it works for you I am afraid.

The other things to think about are

a. The BIK rate for a PHEV will be lower than for a pure diesel, amounting to perhaps several hundred pounds a year.

b. In the not too distant future, expect to start seeing charging introduced for diesels entering cities. If you are looking at a 3 year deal for example, this might not impact within that timeframe but sooner or later it will.

The XC40 looks a nice car, no doubt. Alternatively you can get a proper nice ICE for less money, but with a higher BIK rate than the PHEV, the cost of the BIK will be around the same.

But for that money, if you were going PHEV (and therefore accepting of the need to get a home charger), sorry for banging on about it, but I would honestly be looking seriously at BEV. The overall cost of ownership will be lower because of the 0% BIK and the buttons cost for the fuel. They are a hoot to drive, and being honest, how often a year do you drive further than the range of the car (i.e. your trips to the lakes)?. Do you really need to discard them as a choice because 3 or 4 times a year you might need to spend an hour at a charger? You could have a Tesla Model 3 for similar money to the XC40 Hybrid.

 

Not sure about that - I didn't think there was any restriction on what cars can be financed through salary sacrifice?

Charger unlikely to be free. The grant was reduced this year to £350. But they don't necessarily have to cost the earth. There is a wide range of them out there - depends on how 'smart' you want it to be.

 

Note: that's just an "for example". Your dog wouldn't thank you for getting a M3. Its a saloon.

 

The PHEV does perform better, but you have to really be used to driving it. There is a real knack to getting good mileage. The tax loophole has been removed for these, hence the rise in full electric vehicles. A good electric vehicle will easily get you to the lakes without charging...