Mccleans wife on the sectarian abuse he gets

I've absolutely no doubt that the British (mainly English establishment) have behaved terribly in Ireland and indeed many other pàrts of the world over the years and Mcclean as every right not to wear a poppy on his shirt without getting death threats and abuse. My OP was just outlining the fact that he hasn't helped himself and in fact appeared to be going out of his way to be provocative and inflame the situation with his Instagram post. Other players have not worn poppies quietly and privately but they've stood with their team mates in an act of remembrance in the center circle. McClean hasn't, he deliberately draws attention to himself by standing well away from team mates and with his back to the proceedings. Maybe he should remember the thousands of Irish Catholics who volunteered for the British Army to fight the Nazis in WW2 and give him his right not to wear a poppy rather than seeking to glorify an organisation who certainly in later years have been more about running criminality in Ireland than freedom fighting but that's just my honestly held opinion.

 

I've acknowledged that

 

The vast majority of the articles I read about him are supportive.

He has been vilified every time he has said or done something stupid. .

From the top of my head...

Being photographed at Wigan wearing the insignia of Republican hit squad.

Several photos of him wearing the lily something that was brought out to remember the Irish deaths caused by the Easter uprising but has subsequently been used by Sien Fien, the IRA and its splinter movements to commemorate those who died for the cause.

Quoting Bobby Sands.

The Ira History lesson

Having to be told by Sunderland to delete his twitter account.

turning his back on the flag/anthem while at west brom.

The shenanigans last season during the playing of the last post documented on here by more sensible people than me.

His reasons for not wearing a poppy I understand and I can sympathise with. However, when its a subject as inflammatory as the troubles, its best once you've voiced your reasoning to shut up and keep your head down.

I honestly think he thrives off the attention around Remembrance Day and enjoys the goading of fans, be it at Oakwell, Hilsboro or Huddersfield last season.

He is like a kid who keeps sticking his hand in a wasps nest then complains he gets stung.

 

One persons terrorist is another persons freedom fighter.

https://globalnews.ca/news/5201623/nelson-mandela-apartheid-terrorist-south-africa/

if the Germans had won WW2 how do we think the French Resistance would have been portrayed.

 

McLean is targeted and victimised by the press. He is hassled by fans based on a simplistic red top view of events in N Ireland. Anyone with even the vaguest idea of Irish history knows that it was much more grey than black and white.

 

The same could be said for every terrorist organisation throughout history then, if you look at both sides of the fence, would people justify ISIS or say I understand their aim and carnage because of what the coalition did in Iraq, I understand tbh to a certain degree as to why they wanted their own caliphate but no matter which side of the fence I sit I can't justify the beheadings, crucifixions the burnings, the rolling over someone's head in a tank, for one second, but to many sat on their side of the fence it was the right thing to do, to me it was barbaric and every paveway that struck and turned them to red mist was justified. The difference between a terrorist and a soldier is one is a LAWFUL COMBATANT and the other is not, one wears a uniform the others do not, one plays by the rules of war ( yes their is a rule of war) one doesn't, yes their is an exception and we have had idiots who don't but in the grand scheme of things its absolutely miniscule, I taught the Geneva Convention prior to me leaving in 2010, wow what a skull f^%k that was, I also worked at the detention facility in Iraq looking after the insurgents, and they were treated and accomodated better than our own, I was then put through the mill and was part of the Iraq war enquiry which was fuelled by the lies of Morgan and the Daily f€%^in mirror, as it happened the big lawyer Sweeney was found out and no action was taken, not once were they ill treated, you didn't have to allow what they did to cloud your judgment, but by definition one is a terrorist and the other isnt

 

I'm not for one moment justifying beheadings. And the Irish situation was different to say South Africa in that there was the ballot box. However, say the Nazis had won and we were under their governance and had to speak German and had worse educational opportunities, job opportunities etc. And all but Yorkshire after decades of protest became England again and self governing. But because Yorkshire still had a load of Germans who had settled and lived here and had kids, grand kids here they still wanted to be ruled by Germany?

 

And I believe in letting the people decide, and I include ulster in that.

 

There wasn't a ballot box though Helen - not in the way we would understand it. The troubles didn't kick off in 1969 because the IRA wanted a United Ireland. The IRA didn't exist in any meaningful form - they'd given away their weapons from the 1950's to the Sons of Glyndwr!

The troubles broke out because one section of the community didn't get the same access to jobs, housing and the vote as the other section - because of their religion. Effectively apartheid. Even in places where the catholic population were in the majority the political boundaries were gerrymandered to ensure they never could get power. The British Govt (of both colours) were well aware of this situation and had shamefully ignored it for 50 years. These people, who sought civil rights and took their inspiration from what was happening in the USA, contained Protestants and Catholics. It was only because these 'asks' were put down with such brutality by the security services that the IRA then re-emerged (from the Northern communities) as the Provisionals (PIRA) - splitting from the original organisation In the South. Then followed the decades long attrition that we had, and the wasted lives - British and Irish. Never should we allow those days back.

 

I think your posts have been very reasonable through this discussion PT and, without being patronising, that's a bit unusual from ex military who, in my experience, often see things in rather more 'black and white' terms or 'For God and Queen and Country'. Thank you.

 

Very true. However the point I was making was in comparison to South Africa where they weren't allowed a vote at all.

 

i think the original IRA had given their weapons in after the treaty but there was still a very small minority that vowed to continue the struggle .
This section were insignificant until the troubles in the sixties with the Catholic society at first welcoming the Army intervention .
However with the atrocities and bullying from the Protestant community and the Harrasment of the civil rights movement from The police force and Army they gradually grew in number culminating on Blood Sunday which the IRA said was its best ever recruiting sergeant with thousands of young men queuing up to join .

 

I'd have one question for Mr McClean. Which organisation has killed the most Innocent Irish Catholics since the 1960s the British Army or the Provisional IRA? and I'd hazard a guess that it's not the one he hates but the one he glorifies.

 

Thankyou DT, appreciate that

 

Sons of Glyndwr - Meibion Owain Glyndwr - founded in 1979 to 'save' Welsh language and Culture. NO links to the IRA.
Major concern for Meibion Glyndwr was the housing crisis in Wales brought about by the locals being outpriced. Many so called 'second homes' set on fire (228 in total - no convictions!!)
The establishment of the Welsh Senedd - Parliament in 1987 gave equal status for both the Welsh and English language -in Wales -- Welsh language and culture is now flourishing -- no need to burn houses!
And hopefully it wont be too long before the Irish Language is given official status in Northern Ireland.

 

I'm not going to get into the whole IRA thing here, but I would like to say that no one in Ireland wears poppys. I've never even seen them on sale here. They just don't mean the same thing here.So if he wanted to remember the Irish that died in WW2, that wouldn't be the way he'd do it.

 

No but he could do what other players do who dont wear the poppy and stand in quiet remembrance with his team mates instead he chooses to draw attention to himself by standing with his back to the proceedings well away from his team mates like a spoilt child

 

I don't see why he can't just come out after the minutes silence has been done.